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Old 11-24-2012, 11:16 PM   #31
cpuover
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Joined: Oct 2012
Oddometer: 4
I switched out the coolant and coolant sensor last weekend. The immediate cold-start stalls are history!

I also decided to pull the trigger on a GS-911, and here's what it read today:
Code:
#2012-11-24 16:07:25 
#GS-911 Android V1.1 
#G650 Xcountry 
4433: Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor Malfunction, Short-circuit to Positive or Open-circuit. The fault is not present now. 
17460: Tank ventilation valve, Open-circuit or output-stage overloaded. The fault is currently present.
I suspect 4433 would've been triggered by starting the bike with sensor disconnected, and not just if the sensor is bad. I regret not having a dealer pull the codes before I began tinkering. The other fault (17460) showing is due to the canister laying on the garage floor, I just need to short the disconnected plug I think.

Reading the real-time values using the GS-911, I'm seeing huge fluctuations from the lambda sensor, and maybe this sensor is malfunctioning. The bike doesn't run perfectly smooth, it kind of struggles, then catches up, then struggles. I need to do some more research and ride some more and see what I can come up with.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:29 PM   #32
khpossum
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another success story. First took off the carbon canister, since it was the easiest. Did maybe make some differnce, hard to say. I then changed the temperature sensor and the problems are 99% gone. Measuring the resistance it was hard to say there was anything wrong with the old one, but no more cold engine stalling.

KP
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:43 AM   #33
snooker
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Location: Loveland, Colorado
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My cold stalling has gotten worse lately. And this is after cleaning the idle actuator and about a month into a new Odyssey battery. The weather is warmer now too and it is happening more, only when engine is warming up. When I start it from cold I never let the engine warm up I just take off immediately and ride gently and it will stall at a stop sign right away. Sometimes.

I've got 20k on it and have not checked the valves yet. It starts fine. So don't know if that is related. But I want to check out this coolant temperature sensor when I can.

So anybody in Colorado have a GS 911 that I can swing by your house and pay you to hook up for a reading?
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:05 PM   #34
khpossum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snooker View Post
My cold stalling has gotten worse lately. And this is after cleaning the idle actuator and about a month into a new Odyssey battery. The weather is warmer now too and it is happening more, only when engine is warming up. When I start it from cold I never let the engine warm up I just take off immediately and ride gently and it will stall at a stop sign right away. Sometimes.

I've got 20k on it and have not checked the valves yet. It starts fine. So don't know if that is related. But I want to check out this coolant temperature sensor when I can.

So anybody in Colorado have a GS 911 that I can swing by your house and pay you to hook up for a reading?
I feel your pain. I would replace the sensor regardless. I could not find anything wrong with anything, but when I replaced the sensor and cleaned the idle actuator everything was A-OK. The sensor is not very expensive, so why fight it. Post 26 has of course other things to look at,

Good luck, KP
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:15 PM   #35
snooker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khpossum View Post
I feel your pain. I would replace the sensor regardless. I could not find anything wrong with anything, but when I replaced the sensor and cleaned the idle actuator everything was A-OK. The sensor is not very expensive, so why fight it. Post 26 has of course other things to look at,

Good luck, KP
Apparently this same sensor number 13 62 1 703 993 is used in BMW cars as well. I just ordered the MTC temperature switch that was under $20 so probably a cheaper aftermarket one vs. the $40 OEM one. (Last one in stock).

My plan was to simply use it to learn how to read the resistance between terminals on it without installing it into the bike even. Like heat it up in hot water or something and see which pins change resistance between them. Then if the one in the bike seems to compare ok then I probably won't bother replacing it. Of course it could be intermittent.

DO you have any information on how to pull off the connector and measure ohms across combinations of the 4 pins? I haven't tried yet, maybe it is obvious.

I've also collected a lot of other info on this topic at my G650X web page, just search for "cold stalling".
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:24 PM   #36
khpossum
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I found the connections somewhere on the internet, but can't find that info anymore. You should be able to figure it out with an ohm meter, although it a pain to get your leads into the sensor connector. The link you showed is for a switch. BMW is confused in what they call it. It is not a switch but thermistor / RTD or something like that. I do have a PDF with the temperature - resistance curve that I believe applies this thing. Make sure you don't buy a switch and that has the 4 connection plug, nit the usual 2 connections. All: IIRC
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:19 AM   #37
tommyvdv
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ever solve this?
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:44 PM   #38
snooker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khpossum View Post
I found the connections somewhere on the internet, but can't find that info anymore. You should be able to figure it out with an ohm meter, although it a pain to get your leads into the sensor connector. The link you showed is for a switch. BMW is confused in what they call it. It is not a switch but thermistor / RTD or something like that. I do have a PDF with the temperature - resistance curve that I believe applies this thing. Make sure you don't buy a switch and that has the 4 connection plug, nit the usual 2 connections. All: IIRC
Yes the BMW fiche under 17 Cooling on diagram 17_0429 - RADIATOR HOSES/TEMPERATURE SENSOR ....
calls item 11 a Double Temperature Switch I too was confused if it was the same thing, so lets call it a thermistor actually...

11 13 62 1 703 993 DOUBLE TEMPERATURE SWITCH0.07 1 $38.75




The part I got from Amazon to experiment with, was packaged in a bag marked Vollig but the part itself has no markings on it like the OEM one does.

When you pull the connector on the bike off of the sensor, it looks like there are tabs to pry up but DO NOT pry anyting! Just wiggle the black connector and pull straight out and and there is a waterproof O-ring seal on the connector that makes it stay snugly attached.

Anyhow when you pull the connector off, there are only 2 pins in the wiring harness that are used, pins 3 and 4. So you measure between pins 3 and 4 on the thermistor in the engine block.

UPDATED:
Now to actual measurements. (All made at 80 to 90 degrees F, ambient air temperature):

For different engine temperature situations:
1. 2280 Ohms - Cold engine.
2. 510 Ohms - Bike was hot then sat for 2 hours, then ridden 5 minutes.
3. 250 Ohms - Bike was cold then ridden 15 minutes.

The replacement "Vollig" part sitting loose on the bench says 1860 Ohms.

If anybody else would post any measurements (kOhms) it would be helpful, especially those of a BAD sensor, where replacing it fixed your cold stalling.
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snooker screwed with this post 08-07-2013 at 01:31 PM
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:58 PM   #39
khpossum
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This is what I found sometime, somewhere. It seems this table correlates with your measurement.



Same table enlarged, please note table is in Celsius:



It would be interesting to correlate at various temps to make really sure this table is valid

KP
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:55 PM   #40
snooker
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That is very helpful. I have not searched for such a table for our exact sensor / thermistor.

Just as a reminder ours has 4 terminals (though only 2 appear to be used (unless somehow the ground / chassis frame is used as a reference?).. so this is not exactly the same sensor we have. I assume you were just using this chart as an example.

One more data point: After a 20 minute summer ride mine measured 0.51 kOhms.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:13 PM   #41
khpossum
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Yes, this one has a different connector. This is the closest i could find when i looked for data on the xc sensor based on the writing on the sensor. It seemed that the thermistor is probably the same as ours.
kp
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