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Old 03-18-2010, 09:40 AM   #781
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R75/5
What you do get right is that my posting was actually about pointless postings. You and I do not have a bend rear-shock bolt. So what are we doing in this thread?
Yes, we can voice our opinion about the design of the bolt. And we both have done so: IMHO it seems good enough for the job, but - and there I differ from Joel - whether it's a particularly clever solution, I seriously doubt. In my job things like that would be flagged up as: “Might be adequate, but looks unnecessarily complicated and does not appear to have enough structural reserve: Potential risk.” That being said I should be outa this thread.
True.

Quote:
Firstly, Griz, read up your postings over the months, and you might realize that you're actually on on all issues on anyones page depending from which side the wind blows.
False. That is simply how you read them because you don't like me for some odd internet forum reason. I have always and will always agree with the side that I believe to be true. Which is not which ever way the wind blows. Obviously you aren't actually reading. Give up on the "History of the Griz" bullshit.

Quote:
You don't have my sympathy on this.
And the reason is that your conclusion is already “Massive electrical issues” before you had even a preliminary look at the source of the problem. The entire CAN-bus stuff + the FI electronics are pretty sensitive to low battery voltage, voltage spikes or even just a loose connector. I had some WTF experiences myself after tying to get my bike up and running after the battery was deep discharged. But I also should mentioned that I deep discharged because I connected some farkle myself in a way which is in retrospect not particularly clever.
BOSCH-electronics, which are used in many cars and bikes these days, don't like that at all. Certainly, a bad computer / electronics design might be the source of your particular problem. But also something like a loose connector of the FI electronics could have caused this or a shortened cell in the battery. After all the obvious trivial things are weeded out the conclusion “I have massive electrical issues” is fully justified. What honks me off is that any problem these days starts with the conclusion “utter design failure” before any analysis is even attempted. So start a proper thread with a full description of your problem, follow it through and also post the solution of the riddle. And should it turn out that the electronics has a design gremlin, please by all means post this, since this would be important to know for people considering to buy the bike. Should it turn out that your battery shortened one cell, this is also useful information to keep people off the side of the road.
Head and tail lights flickering while running and while not running, speedo and tach jumping all over erratically, odd ticking sounds from random places when start button is pressed, and a warning light would be chalked up as massive electrical issues in virtually anyone's book, my friend. Pretty sure you're the minority on this one.

Quote:
And should it simply turn out that you damaged or not properly reconnected the cabling tree while putting in your shock-bolt brace, please post this, too. This is not embarrassing, but helpful information for people who want to do this mod. But somehow I slowly get the feeling that the majority of the posters here would post the former sources of error in all gory detail and the latter discretely not at all. After all, it is always someone else's fault.
Again with the never-ending condescending assumptions.....You should practice what you preach above.

FYI, I made damn sure to properly inspect, route, and zip tie all electrical cabling during the shock brace install. Especially the cable that goes beneath the brace.








Just stop man. Please don't post about this stupid shit again..... Now back to shock bolts.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:17 PM   #782
F800 Rob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Has anyone asked this guy and/or his crew if they're bending bolts like crazy? Or if they have done any frame reinforcements? Commen sense tells me that they're probably not just bending bolts and replaceing them all the time. They probably found this issue immediately after the first run! I wonder how they combat it?



Jeff,

I've spoken with Mario @ Twalcom - both this motorcycle's bolt, and his personal F800GS's bolt is bent.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:36 PM   #783
YetiGS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F800 Rob
Jeff,

I've spoken with Mario @ Twalcom - both this motorcycle's bolt, and his personal F800GS's bolt is bent.
He needs the RM brace!


Has he done anything to reinforce either shock mount?
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:26 PM   #784
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F800 Rob
Jeff,

I've spoken with Mario @ Twalcom - both this motorcycle's bolt, and his personal F800GS's bolt is bent.
I figured as much. Thanks for the info, man. I agree (not due to direction of wind), RM brace needed!!
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:24 PM   #785
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Geeeezzzzzz

This started out as an informative thread about the possibility of your upper shock bolt being bent and/or bending.
And now it has evolved into a pissing match.

Thank you to all who have posted pertinent information regarding the shock bolt issue.


To the others:

Go Riding, its more fun than an internet forum pissing match
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:45 PM   #786
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOXOF
Geeeezzzzzz

This started out as an informative thread about the possibility of your upper shock bolt being bent and/or bending.
And now it has evolved into a pissing match.

Thank you to all who have posted pertinent information regarding the shock bolt issue.


To the others:

Go Riding, its more fun than an internet forum pissing match

+100
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:47 PM   #787
johngil OP
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The good news:
- bottom bolt is straight
- cross tube appears straight
- RM brace looks cool

The bad news:
- top bolt still bends
- I haven't done my taxes yet

Take it for what it's worth people. The key is frequent inspection. Without the brace things may have been bad. For now, it's a slightly bent bolt. No real big deal.
I can sell the bike in 100% good faith probably due to the RM brace. No damage other than a bent bolt. Ohlins is asking for the shock back to evaluate the setup. I still think it's undersprung and the #'s agree.

I'm disappointed.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:09 PM   #788
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngil
The good news:
- bottom bolt is straight
- cross tube appears straight
- RM brace looks cool

The bad news:
- top bolt still bends
- I haven't done my taxes yet

Take it for what it's worth people. The key is frequent inspection. Without the brace things may have been bad. For now, it's a slightly bent bolt. No real big deal.
I can sell the bike in 100% good faith probably due to the RM brace. No damage other than a bent bolt. Ohlins is asking for the shock back to evaluate the setup. I still think it's undersprung and the #'s agree.

I'm disappointed.
So you're saying you bent a bolt while using the Ralle-Moto brace??! If you actually did, it's gotta be that Ohlins setup or somethin'. I find it extremely hard to believe though. You sure you're not milking this April fools thing until the last minute here??
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:23 AM   #789
johngil OP
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Well, I'm a little too old for any April 1st stuff, sorry.
I think I'll give the 12.9 bolt a try.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:33 AM   #790
Zacharia_11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngil
Well, I'm a little too old for any April 1st stuff, sorry.
I think I'll give the 12.9 bolt a try.
Sorry to here it. I was pretty sure you had it sorted.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:31 AM   #791
Lion BR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
So you're saying you bent a bolt while using the Ralle-Moto brace??! If you actually did, it's gotta be that Ohlins setup or somethin'. I find it extremely hard to believe though. You sure you're not milking this April fools thing until the last minute here??
Considering bolt was properly torqued:

this new set of data MEANS that:
- The ralle-moto brace does not prevent the bolt from bending when an Ohlins shock is installed.

this new set of data COULD ALSO mean that:
- The ralle-moto does not prevent bolts from bending

this new set of data is one more CONTRIBUTOR to the following assumption:
- 800GS shock bolt design appears to be flawed.

Lion
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:52 AM   #792
guzzimike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR
:
- 800GS shock bolt design appears to be flawed.

Lion
I am no engineer, but I, so far, fail to see what the RM brace actually does.
We are going to be spending some time over Easter looking at the top shock mount and finding a way of reinforcing it.
This may take some fabricating and welding, but we are pretty sure it's not rocket science.
Looking at KTM top mounts, you can see that bending bolts is not in the agenda. Maybe we need to copy their design.
Incidentally, I have not bent bolt, or frame, but I can see its a crap piece of engineering.
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:36 AM   #793
johngil OP
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The brace is a good idea and helps in my opinion. It is only a bandaid.
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:39 AM   #794
davidpetersen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guzzimike
I am no engineer, but I, so far, fail to see what the RM brace actually does.
It does several things:

1. It cradles the underside of the large cross-over tube, just in front of the shock bolt

2. This cradling transfers any forces on the bolt, which are transferred into the brace, to the underside of that huge cross-over frame tube

3. It also bolts to another frame point, which further distributes the load to other frame points

4. Once the RM brace is in place, it effectively narrows the unsupported span of the bolt, to the width of the upper eyelet of the shock. You go from 3" of unsupported span, to about 1-3/8

So what does the RM brace do? It spreads the load and it narrows the unsupported span of the bolt. It protects the frame.

A better grade bolt will also help. A washer under the head of that bolt will help. Proper torque is critical.

Until BMW does a frame redesign (don't hold your breath), the Ralle-Moto shock brace is the best thing out there to prevent any problems.
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:39 AM   #795
Lion BR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngil
The brace is a good idea and helps in my opinion. It is only a bandaid.
bandaid: A hasty solution that covers up the symptoms but does little or nothing to mitigate the underlying problem. A quick fix.

It appears to me that if your bolt was bent, WITH the ralle-moto brace, than such brace did not mitigate the underlying problem. It would not serve even as a band aid. Not even for the soul.

You Johngil, mentioned on your post, that from your observations, the fix is to constantly check the bolt. Are you saying that it is about changing bolts, if they bend, before the problem goes as far as bending the frame? If so, the regular check of the bolt, changing it when it starts bending, is in my opinion, the true band aid here to prevent a bent frame.

Lion



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