ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Regional forums > Canada
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-17-2009, 10:54 AM   #1
speedracer OP
The Lucky One
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Middle of Canada.......no really.........it is
Oddometer: 165
Pissed Manitoba Riders (Ideas on how to stop Autopac from stealing from us)

It's theft if you ask me. I can register and insure my bike in most provinces for 3 to 4 years for the same amount as I can for one year in Manitoba and yet they say they are losing money and want to raise our rates yet again.

I"d like to hear peoples ideas (constructive ones) on things we can do to put pressure on the provincial government to get motorcycle insurance in line with the rest of the country.
__________________
The true measure of a person's Character is how they treat someone who can do nothing for them" Unknown"
speedracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 11:38 AM   #2
BOBMUNZ
In jail for a while.
 
BOBMUNZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba
Oddometer: 484
There are a number of things that can be done and have been attempted.

Graduated licensing for new riders has been pitched so that newer drivers would have learning time, sadly autopac didnt come through on its end and rates didnt lower but new riders cant drive after dark and cant have a passenger or a trailer.

I will get some more information from my boss about what he does in the fight against autopac, he is quite active in the community.

Putting pressure on dealerships to join the fight could help, because the high insurance premiums hurt their business because fewer people buy bikes because the rates are too high.

Putting pressure on the govn't to allow private insurance companies to come in, instead of allowing autopac to have a monopoly on the market here. If they had competition they would stop building new service centers and start lowering our rates to compete.

The thing you have to keep in mind is that the provincial government has a pretty big stake in autopac, its in the top four earners for annual revenue, so they wont give that up without a fight.

Sadly the other problem with our situation is that there are very very few registered motorcycles out there (around 7000 I think Provence wide) and when you compare that to the amount of cars and the population its pretty small. Guess its time to raise our voices.

Oh and one other thing, the boss told me the next thing they are trying is to make it easier for people with multiple vehicles or bikes, if they set themselves as the only registered driver then they cant possibly be driving more then one vehicle at once, and they would therefor pay a single premium (most likely the highest one, so if you have a car,truck,cruiser, and sport bike, you would pay the $3000 sport bike premium only) I am highly doubting that this one would go through tho.
BOBMUNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 02:16 PM   #3
'Dumbdog
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Oddometer: 311
A)attack wpg city hall with petitions... focus on how motorcycles/scooters can help with traffic and parking....
B)promote motorcycling as a "Greener" alternative to suv's and many cars...
C) push for the graduated licenses, and multi vehicle insurance...

get petitions demanding demand actual stats/figures for motorcycle revenues and payouts from Auto pac....

once city hall starts pushing for motorcyclists, the province will have to bend and provide the stats at least to justify thier position on rates... may be an opportunity to negotiate... I think, sadly, we as motorcyclists are being forced to subsidize the rates for the very idiots in thier cars that are out there trying to kill us...

'Dumbdog screwed with this post 07-17-2009 at 02:22 PM
'Dumbdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 03:07 PM   #4
TLXR
Adventurer
 
TLXR's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Oddometer: 36
The CMMG has made it their mandate to help stave off the rampant premium increases. Maybe without their involvement motorcycles will have already been outlawed, but with 7-20% increases year-over-year for the past 10 years I think they're losing the fight regardless.

From my understanding, MPI calculates motorcycle rates differently than every other insurer in North America (perhaps globally), and this includes the other public auto insurers in BC and Saskatchewan. If a motorcycle is involved in a multi-vehicle accident, then statically the motorcycle category eats the cost regardless of fault. As an example, if a motorcyclist is sideswiped and plows into a guardrail because a cage driver didn't notice them, the perceived "cost" of insuring motorcycles goes up, and as a result MPI will raise the motorcycle rates, and not the automobile rates. So basically, every motorcyclist suffers whenever an accident occurs involving a motorcycle, regardless of who caused it.

The other problem, from what I gather, is that the province bills back MPI for all medical expenses relating to personal injury claims despite being a publicly funded healthcare system. I don't know for certain whether this is the case in other provinces but considering personal injury claims for motorcyclists are indeed higher (per accident) than automobile claims and that motorcycles are "blamed" for 100% of all their accidents (despite actual fault), this may contribute to the higher rates.

My suggestion would be to focus on the Public Utilities Board as they are the governing body responsible for managing our costs for public services. I'm simply baffled that MPI has been able to demonstrate to the PUB that their requested rate hikes for motorcyclists is indeed fair. A simple comparison with BC/Saskatchewan rates and MPI rates will show the enormous disparity. Maybe if legal action were taken against the PUB, they'd sit up and take notice.

In the meantime, there are a few methods of mitigating some of MPI's crimanl rape of motorcyclists...
  • Move out of Territory 1 (like me). This will save you at least 30%. And you get the added benefit of not having to pay Winnipeg's stupid high property taxes!
  • Only insure your motorcycle for the months you'll be riding. In my case, I pretty much know May and part of June are out of the question so there is 1/5 to 1/4 of the cost gone. I usually take 3-4 weeks off where I'm away and can't ride so there is another 1/5. This year I'll pay a little over $600 (territory 2) because I just insured my KLR the first week of July and it will expire in January (4 months after my b-day). I will pick up standing insurance until probably the beginning of June, or until I know I'll be in a position to ride again. One thing to keep in mind is that virtually the entire cost of a years insurance is from May to September. The other months are virtually free since MPI considers this pretty much standing insurance as it's off-season. Insuring Oct to April is dirt cheap.
  • Pick up a permit for the days you want to ride (up to a max of 15 days). Up until this year you used to be able to pick up a temp permit for as many days as you wanted, so effectively you could have picked up one 30 day permit, then gone and got another when that one expired. They obviously noticed that many, many riders were opting to do this since the rates are significantly cheaper and now the limit is 15 days, but still, that's 7 weekends if you play it smart. I have another bike that is definitely not a main ride (pretty much track only) so the permit option looks much better for the odd weekend when I want to stretch it's legs for a quick rip up to Grand Beach or even just Lockport.
What MPI is doing to motorcyclists in this province is criminal and proper legal action really needs to be taken, but that costs money. CMMG might be the closest chance we have fighting the steady criminalization of motorcycles in Manitoba, but their track record isn't great for successes in getting our rates lowered back down to sane levels. Additional support needs to come from somewhere to get some decent legal representation to tear MPI a new pooper.

That's my opinion, anyway.
TLXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2009, 06:25 PM   #5
skysailor
Rat Rider
 
skysailor's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Kenora, Canada
Oddometer: 3,299
Pressure the powers that be to allow American Insurance Companies to do business in Canada. Nothing else is going to work, simply because Manitoba doesn't want motorcycles in the Province! There are not enough of you left to make a big enough impact on the MLA for them to give a rat's ass about you.
When you can insure a Honda Silver Wing, 600 cc scooter for 600$ and it costs 3000+$ to insure a CBR125.....smell the roses....Manitoba wants motorcycles out of the province!
I've turned down jobs in Manitoba......for that very reason.
skysailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 01:56 PM   #6
speedracer OP
The Lucky One
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Middle of Canada.......no really.........it is
Oddometer: 165
So how do we take action?

Good points all around. I think the hardest part is to get everyone organized to take action. I do like the idea of using those 15 temp insurance days. I'll have to do that.
Is anyone one here a lawyer or know one? What would it take to get a class action lawsuit going? I'd like to start making a list of those interested in moving forward on that.
__________________
The true measure of a person's Character is how they treat someone who can do nothing for them" Unknown"
speedracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 05:31 PM   #7
Night_Wolf
Leg Humper
 
Night_Wolf's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Lat: N 9000'00" Long: N/A
Oddometer: 8,068
Ok so what wuld it cost to insure a DL650 in Manitoba??? I can tell you I was paying $1150.00 in 05 in Ont and I'm paying $500.00 for an 07 Wee in Alberta (full coverage in both provinces but AB gives me the added benefit of full replacement for 2 yrs).

I heard people complain about the "high" cost to insure a bike in Ab, but IMO it's fucking cheap compared to Ont. I'll agree the above costs of the Silver Wing vs the CBR 125 are fucking crazy
__________________

L 51.01.900 / L W 114.05.900


"That road less traveled is a toll road, and sometimes the charge is more expensive than we ever expected. Most of the time, it's a one way road. Make the decision, hope for the best, and start traveling. Carry lots of coins." PecosBill

Pick good friends and you'll never be lacking Family Me
Night_Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 06:02 PM   #8
skysailor
Rat Rider
 
skysailor's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Kenora, Canada
Oddometer: 3,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Wolf
Ok so what wuld it cost to insure a DL650 in Manitoba??? I can tell you I was paying $1150.00 in 05 in Ont and I'm paying $500.00 for an 07 Wee in Alberta (full coverage in both provinces but AB gives me the added benefit of full replacement for 2 yrs).

I heard people complain about the "high" cost to insure a bike in Ab, but IMO it's fucking cheap compared to Ont. I'll agree the above costs of the Silver Wing vs the CBR 125 are fucking crazy
I just worked it out. Just over 3000$ for a DL650 with no discount! The same if I were brain dead enough to live in Manitoba and insure my 650 Bandit. No doubt about it.....you are getting fucked! In Ontario, I'm paying 700$ full coverage on my Bandit! A buddy of mine is paying 275$ in Chicago! We MUST get the American insurance companies into Canada!
skysailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 12:39 AM   #9
Night_Wolf
Leg Humper
 
Night_Wolf's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Lat: N 9000'00" Long: N/A
Oddometer: 8,068
When I had my Intruders I was paying over $1200.00 and I had friends in the Excited States complaining they had to pay $100.00 for a year

Quote:
Originally Posted by skysailor
I just worked it out. Just over 3000$ for a DL650 with no discount! The same if I were brain dead enough to live in Manitoba and insure my 650 Bandit. No doubt about it.....you are getting fucked! In Ontario, I'm paying 700$ full coverage on my Bandit! A buddy of mine is paying 275$ in Chicago! We MUST get the American insurance companies into Canada!
__________________

L 51.01.900 / L W 114.05.900


"That road less traveled is a toll road, and sometimes the charge is more expensive than we ever expected. Most of the time, it's a one way road. Make the decision, hope for the best, and start traveling. Carry lots of coins." PecosBill

Pick good friends and you'll never be lacking Family Me
Night_Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 08:08 PM   #10
TLXR
Adventurer
 
TLXR's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Oddometer: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Wolf
Ok so what wuld it cost to insure a DL650 in Manitoba??? I can tell you I was paying $1150.00 in 05 in Ont and I'm paying $500.00 for an 07 Wee in Alberta (full coverage in both provinces but AB gives me the added benefit of full replacement for 2 yrs).

I heard people complain about the "high" cost to insure a bike in Ab, but IMO it's fucking cheap compared to Ont. I'll agree the above costs of the Silver Wing vs the CBR 125 are fucking crazy
The DL650 is classified as a sport bike here (I know. Dumb.) so right now it's incredibly expensive, but in 2010 it'll be moved to the new classification of sport tourer which will be a little less. Maybe something like 10-20% less.

The price I come up with for a 2009 DL650 (not DR650) in Winnipeg with 500/500/200k (cheapest collision and comp) is an undiscounted rate of $2910 as per the MPI online calculator. So roughly 1/3 the cost of the bike. Even with max merits you'd still be looking at $2261.

As for the class action, I might be interested, but generally when you sue someone, or something, you're suing for money, whereas in this case we'd be suing them to reduce rates going forward. That is why I'd suggested suing the PUB for damages as they are the governing body that might actually be able to force MPI's rates back in line. We'd need to find a lawyer that specializes in insurance claims maybe, but I would suggest reaching out to CMMG first since they've probably gone further down this path than anyone so far.
TLXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 10:35 PM   #11
Night_Wolf
Leg Humper
 
Night_Wolf's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Lat: N 9000'00" Long: N/A
Oddometer: 8,068
Ok that is fucking crazy money to insure a Strom

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLXR
The DL650 is classified as a sport bike here (I know. Dumb.) so right now it's incredibly expensive, but in 2010 it'll be moved to the new classification of sport tourer which will be a little less. Maybe something like 10-20% less.

The price I come up with for a 2009 DL650 (not DR650) in Winnipeg with 500/500/200k (cheapest collision and comp) is an undiscounted rate of $2910 as per the MPI online calculator. So roughly 1/3 the cost of the bike. Even with max merits you'd still be looking at $2261.

As for the class action, I might be interested, but generally when you sue someone, or something, you're suing for money, whereas in this case we'd be suing them to reduce rates going forward. That is why I'd suggested suing the PUB for damages as they are the governing body that might actually be able to force MPI's rates back in line. We'd need to find a lawyer that specializes in insurance claims maybe, but I would suggest reaching out to CMMG first since they've probably gone further down this path than anyone so far.
__________________

L 51.01.900 / L W 114.05.900


"That road less traveled is a toll road, and sometimes the charge is more expensive than we ever expected. Most of the time, it's a one way road. Make the decision, hope for the best, and start traveling. Carry lots of coins." PecosBill

Pick good friends and you'll never be lacking Family Me
Night_Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 06:24 AM   #12
speedracer OP
The Lucky One
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Middle of Canada.......no really.........it is
Oddometer: 165
I'd say that I'd be happy if they just lowered insurance going forward but if it came down to actually suing MPI I'd say it would be for money. It would be for being over charged for all these years past.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TLXR
The DL650 is classified as a sport bike here (I know. Dumb.) so right now it's incredibly expensive, but in 2010 it'll be moved to the new classification of sport tourer which will be a little less. Maybe something like 10-20% less.

The price I come up with for a 2009 DL650 (not DR650) in Winnipeg with 500/500/200k (cheapest collision and comp) is an undiscounted rate of $2910 as per the MPI online calculator. So roughly 1/3 the cost of the bike. Even with max merits you'd still be looking at $2261.

As for the class action, I might be interested, but generally when you sue someone, or something, you're suing for money, whereas in this case we'd be suing them to reduce rates going forward. That is why I'd suggested suing the PUB for damages as they are the governing body that might actually be able to force MPI's rates back in line. We'd need to find a lawyer that specializes in insurance claims maybe, but I would suggest reaching out to CMMG first since they've probably gone further down this path than anyone so far.
__________________
The true measure of a person's Character is how they treat someone who can do nothing for them" Unknown"
speedracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 02:33 PM   #13
speedracer OP
The Lucky One
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Middle of Canada.......no really.........it is
Oddometer: 165
The only thing to do short term

I looked into things with MPI and as it turns out my broker tells me that if you drop your insurance to storage only you don't pay any cancellation fees. And so it is...........I will be dropping in at my broker on my way home from work when ever I want to ride and then again when I am not riding.
I know it is a pain in the ass but that is what I will have to do so that I don't feel I am being ripped off. I'm guessing it will save me close to $1000 per year.
__________________
The true measure of a person's Character is how they treat someone who can do nothing for them" Unknown"
speedracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 07:03 PM   #14
BOBMUNZ
In jail for a while.
 
BOBMUNZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba
Oddometer: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedracer
I looked into things with MPI and as it turns out my broker tells me that if you drop your insurance to storage only you don't pay any cancellation fees. And so it is...........I will be dropping in at my broker on my way home from work when ever I want to ride and then again when I am not riding.
I know it is a pain in the ass but that is what I will have to do so that I don't feel I am being ripped off. I'm guessing it will save me close to $1000 per year.
I heard about this when I bought my KLR, the broker next to the dealership told me that guys often come in and only run their bikes on the weekends, sadly I use my bike nearly every day so thats not a really viable option, and besides we shouldn't have to resort to such measures in an attempt to get our rates down.
BOBMUNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 08:12 PM   #15
TLXR
Adventurer
 
TLXR's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Oddometer: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedracer
I looked into things with MPI and as it turns out my broker tells me that if you drop your insurance to storage only you don't pay any cancellation fees. And so it is...........I will be dropping in at my broker on my way home from work when ever I want to ride and then again when I am not riding.
I know it is a pain in the ass but that is what I will have to do so that I don't feel I am being ripped off. I'm guessing it will save me close to $1000 per year.
I guess that would mean not having to get a new set of stickers each time you re-insure it since you'd still have the old ones on it with the original expiry date. Oh, and can you change it over to storage by phone or do you need to drop in to the broker?
TLXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014