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Old 07-20-2009, 08:17 AM   #61
Thraan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap
Some of the people that make that comment seem to think that it takes more talent to turn right than left. I'm pretty sure these guys that do so well on the left turns could get a handle on rights as well. I think the idea of the oval was to keep the action close to the spectators, so that wherever the cars are, spectators (the ones that make this financially possible) can see them.
It takes a lot of talent to be fast on an oval.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:24 AM   #62
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Mansell '93 Indy 500 chasing the leaders after getting passed on the restart. Those were some balls to the wall laps.

Mansell was the only driver to hold the CART and F1 titles at the same time.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:20 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Thraan
I'm a fan. I know of many others like me.

They redesign the chassis every year. What extra cost was involved?
Oh, lord.

Never mind. Carry on.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:24 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawidual
I prefer the road courses, but oval racing can be entertaining sometimes.

They should have never limited speeds on the ovals.
Wouldn't it be more enjoyable for fans and drivers without restrictor plates?

I understand about keeping the sport somewhat safer.
But its racing for fucks sake, the drive to go faster, set lap records, etc, etc.
When I first came over here, I sneered at oval racing. How could it possibly be as challenging as road courses? Lame-o!

But the more I watched, the more I appreciated how entertaining it was. Now I'm hooked. Love ovals. Wouldn't mind a bit if the IRL had stuck to Tony George's original mission statement and raced only on ovals.

As for safety, to be honest, NASCAR's new car has made them feel so safe they drive really dangerously. Someone's going to get killed one of these days. Some of the stuff I see them doing just boggles my mind.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:38 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax
Oh, lord.

Never mind. Carry on.


Can you back up your claim that it cost the teams hundreds of millions of dollars to redesign the cars? I'm assuming you meant extra dollars over and above the hundreds of millions they spend every year redesigning the cars.

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Old 07-20-2009, 11:43 AM   #66
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Do they redesign F1 cars every year? Usually the rulebook dictates vehicle design to a large degree. If you are saying that F1 is a true open event, I'll buy your claim that race teams spend the same amount of money in design every year.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:44 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax
When I first came over here, I sneered at oval racing. How could it possibly be as challenging as road courses? Lame-o!

But the more I watched, the more I appreciated how entertaining it was. Now I'm hooked. Love ovals. Wouldn't mind a bit if the IRL had stuck to Tony George's original mission statement and raced only on ovals.
While I've been an on again off again regular viewer of NASCAR, I've been a CART fan for many, many years. The Milwaukee Mile, Loudon, Nazareth and Phoenix bullrings produced some of the best racing I've ever seen.

Superspeedways aint so super IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax
As for safety, to be honest, NASCAR's new car has made them feel so safe they drive really dangerously. Someone's going to get killed one of these days. Some of the stuff I see them doing just boggles my mind.
The run to the flag at the last Daytona race comes to mind.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:53 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Thraan


Can you back up your claim that it cost the teams hundreds of millions of dollars to redesign the cars? I'm assuming you meant extra dollars over and above the hundreds of millions they spend every year redesigning the cars.

It's no big deal. You haven't been following the drama in F1 the last couple of years, so no worries.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:54 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Ills
Do they redesign F1 cars every year? Usually the rulebook dictates vehicle design to a large degree. If you are saying that F1 is a true open event, I'll buy your claim that race teams spend the same amount of money in design every year.
2008 budgets - includes design, manufacture, testing and racing.

Toyota 445.6m

Mclaren 433.3m

Ferrari 414.9m

Honda 398.1m

Renault 393.8m

Bmw 366.8m

Red Bull 164.7m

Williams 160.6m

Toro Rosso 128.2m

Force Ind 121.8m

S Aguri 45.6m


I haven't seen numbers for 2009, but they are reputed to be 30% less on average. Go back a few years and news reports had Ferrari spending 600m a year.

All figures in USD.

Estimated Budget breakdown, from F1 Racing, based on 2006 season

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Old 07-20-2009, 11:55 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax
It's no big deal. You haven't been following the drama in F1 the last couple of years, so no worries.
That's a cop out.
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Old 07-20-2009, 12:04 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Ills
Do they redesign F1 cars every year?
No. They develop them.

Every once in a while, for a variety of reasons, often safety, the FIA mandates substantial changes to the racing regs.

Last year, in response to fan surveys that showed how deep was the fan discontent with the lack of passing, the FIA mandated a complete, very drastic change. The cars are very different. Hugely expensive redesign.

Top teams (Ferrari, Mclaren) that were competing for the driver's title until the very last race last year, were caught out in two ways: they got behind in development of the new design, and they interpreted a rule about rear diffusers in a different way than did a couple of traditionally less successful teams (Brawn ((was Honda)) and Toyota.) That's the only reason traditional winnows have become big fish this year. With normal development of the current design, expect the traditional powerhouses to reassert themselves next year.

This year, huge drama as Max Mosely, president of the FIA, tried to ramrod yet more expensive design changes, an arbitrary spending cap, and an F1 with split technical regs - one set for teams that didn't adhere to a cap, and a more liberal one for teams that did.

That fiasco cost Mosley his job and almost led to an IRL-like breakaway series led by the major teams.

There's more. But the upshot is that no, this year's redesign is not business as usual. And when the FIA tried to push for yet more expensive changes for next year, it almost killed F1 as we know it.
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Old 07-20-2009, 12:05 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Thraan
That's a cop out.
You win.

You're the better man. The best. The superior one.

OK?

Let it go.
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Old 07-20-2009, 12:21 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax
This year, huge drama as Max Mosely, president of the FIA, tried to ramrod yet more expensive design changes, an arbitrary spending cap, and an F1 with split technical regs - one set for teams that didn't adhere to a cap, and a more liberal one for teams that did.
That sounds totally contradictory. How can a liberal interpretation of the rules be cheaper?
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Old 07-20-2009, 12:22 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by wxwax
You win.
You're the better man. The best. The superior one.
OK?
Let it go.
I should start an F1 thread. I'm working on a title, I'm pretty sure the word snob will make it's way into it.
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Old 07-20-2009, 12:27 PM   #75
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Keep turnin' left!




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