Superplush Suspension- Awesome!

[neduro]

Superplush Suspension:

Short version: Superplush's KTM setup totally kicks @ss. It is nothing short of fantastic. Send your stuff to him.

Disclaimer: I have no connection with Superplush, other than really liking the work he did on my bike.

Long version: Since new, I've been lukewarm on my 525 suspension. It seems reasonably competent in many situations, but is very harsh on small, chattery stuff, and goes through the travel too fast in larger, low speed compression type situations.

I could see that stock was too soft. So, shortly after buying the bike, I went to .46 kg/mm fork springs, and a 8.4kg/mm shock spring, which have proven about right IMO.

I experimented with rising rate springs, but after trying a few different ones (7.1-9.0, PDS2, etc) it seemed like they all offered an improvement in plushness and bottoming control, at the expense of a big kick on hard hits. My theory is that the rebound setting appropriate for the spring rate where the coil is on 80% of hits, is insufficient on the few larger hits that get into the harder part of the coil. In any case, I did not feel the progressive springs were worth the tradeoff of a bucking bike on big hits. You'll get as many opinions on this topic as the number of people you ask...

Way back in October (I think it was), I got to ride Jonah Street's Dakar 525 at the Dumont test, complete with Superplush suspension, revision 482,067 (they've done a LOT of testing). Saying I was ginger is a huge understatement- can you imagine how I'd feel if I wadded THAT bike up? In any case, even at half speed, the suspension seemed amazing. Partly this was because I was getting off the 950, which is a bit of a pig to say the least in those conditions, but partly it seemed like he was really onto something with his setup. To be honest, it seemed so good I thought I must be missing something- it was night and day better, so I filed the experience under “my judgment must be off.”

In November, I got to spend some time on a Precision Concepts reworked 525. After riding it in sand whoops, I was ready to send mine in- I even got as far as making an appointment. But then, I rode the same bike in rocks in Baja, and it was apparent that the stock stuff was better in that situation. The PC stuff was harsh in midsized hits and made it hard for me to get a feel for traction. I cancelled the appointment at PC.

Finally, in March, I had a little extra dosh begging to be disposed of in the usual way, and I was taking the 525 offline for a few weeks to put new valves in it. So, I called James Siddall at Superplush and we discussed setup. James is Honda Superbike's suspension guy as a day job, so he's analytical and precise in how he discusses suspension, which is a nice departure from the usual suspension BS. I asked if he could make my timeline. Sure thing, says he, and so off it went.

True to his word, he turned it around exactly as promised (this has not been my experience with all suspension vendors) and it came back as promised. There was a slight misunderstanding about price, but the total cost was $575 including forks and a complete remachining of the shock/needle assembly, which I think is very reasonable.

I was not mistaken in October. This stuff works absolutely freakin' amazing. I had it set up for the desert, and it shines in those conditions.

- It's very plush and comfortable, especially at higher speeds. All the little stuff that used to jarr my spine is now a non-issue, and slightly bigger stuff gives input (as it should) but keeps the bike stable.
- It's much more controlled on big hits. It bottoms, but it does so gracefully, and doesn't EVER kick the bike.
- If I hit something way too hard, the suspension lets the wheel move and keeps everything stable, where before the suspension would lock up and the bike would get kicked.
- All the midstroke harshness that I disliked with Precision Concepts, is sorted on this setup. It's firm but not harsh, where the PC stuff felt tied up.
- The chassis feels planted in far more situations now, allowing me to get on the throttle where before I was waiting for things to settle out before feeding throttle.

All in all, I couldn't be happier, and I can't WAIT to race Vegas to Reno with this stuff, and it's already great for general trailriding and fireroading. It should be way less work and way more fun... which is the point.

Two thumbs way up.

http://www.superplushsuspension.com/

[Renazco]

Good write up Ned
If I were to complain about anything that PC did on my bikes it was the lack of plushness in the mid stuff. I'm sending a suspension over to James at the end of the month as well, he has been a wealth of information on the WP's.

[Zen Slug]

Nice write-up, I'll file this one under the "when I find $600 that the wife won't miss"


Does he work on boingers for 950 and 640 bikes as well?

[neduro]

Originally Posted by Zen Slug

Does he work on boingers for 950 and 640 bikes as well?

No experience with those, but I know he's had Jonah do some testing on them as well.

[James Siddall]

We do in fact do a lot of 950 adventure stuff over here. I post some info on the Orange Crush thread as questions come up.

Cheers,

James

[RonS]

James, I take it you are representing Superplush? If so, I see that you have dirt and road forms to fill out but there does not appear to be anything for dual sport. I've got a 94 Ducati E900 (giant trailie along the lines of the KTM 950) that I'd like to get some suspension work done on.

The forks are harsh as hell both on the road and on rutted gravel roads. I'd like to correct that. They are (I believe) 43mm or 45mm Showa USD's with about 8 inches of travel. There is a slight wear spot where some of the chrome is getting thin on at least one of the lower fork tubes as well. The forks have no adjustment capabilities. Rider sag is currently running around 23 percent. Can you do anything with these forks?

The bike also has a Boge shock that has problems of it's own. Harsh, but not as harsh as the forks. The shock has manual preload and rebound dampening. Rider sag is running around 24 percent. Is it worth putting money into this shock in terms of revalving or is it better to just buy a new one given that the price of a new one with all the adjustments I'd like to have would be about four times the cost of revalving?

Thanks in advance.

[James Siddall]

Originally Posted by RonS

James, I take it you are representing Superplush? If so, I see that you have dirt and road forms to fill out but there does not appear to be anything for dual sport. I've got a 94 Ducati E900 (giant trailie along the lines of the KTM 950) that I'd like to get some suspension work done on.

The forks are harsh as hell both on the road and on rutted gravel roads. I'd like to correct that. They are (I believe) 43mm or 45mm Showa USD's with about 8 inches of travel. There is a slight wear spot where some of the chrome is getting thin on at least one of the lower fork tubes as well. The forks have no adjustment capabilities. Rider sag is currently running around 23 percent. Can you do anything with these forks?

The bike also has a Boge shock that has problems of it's own. Harsh, but not as harsh as the forks. The shock has manual preload and rebound dampening. Rider sag is running around 24 percent. Is it worth putting money into this shock in terms of revalving or is it better to just buy a new one given that the price of a new one with all the adjustments I'd like to have would be about four times the cost of revalving?

Thanks in advance.

Hi Ron,
I am Superplush. WIth regard to the forks, we can certainly improve them. If you know what you don't like, we can fix it. If the stanchion is available from Ducati it can be changed, otherwise the entire lower might need changing.
As far as the shock is concerned, I would be happy to take a look at it, but I suspect, as you do, you would get better performance and adjustability from an Ohlins.
Drop me a line and we can make a plan.

James

[RonS]

Originally Posted by James Siddall

Hi Ron,
Drop me a line and we can make a plan.
James

Sending email. Thanks.

[neduro]

The desert suspension James did for my 4T, which is essentially Jonah's Dakar suspension, is so good, and so balanced, that bolting it on my 250 2T was a big part of how I managed 3rd AA at the Idaho Qualifier a few weeks back.

Before going, I did some testing on a track against a stopwatch. Stock 07 250 XC/W, w/ springs up one rate for my, uh, musclebound figure = bike is a handful, lots of trying to get things pointed the right direction before using the motor hard. Overly stiff Dakar suspension on the 250 = on the throttle a lot more- dropped a few percentage points in laptimes just from bolting it on. That's a big gain given the circumstances, especially when it was clearly not optimally sprung. The stock stuff seems to tie up and get the chassis all confused, James' stuff is both comfy and composed.

So, the 250 suspension (as well as the 950 forks- what the hell? Only money, right?) have gone into James. A full report here when I get them back.

[hilslamer]

I thought I'd chime in to this thread.

I had the chance to ride this bike pretty hard and fast in White Wash, UT and I must say it is by FAR the best-suspended KTM I have had the opportunity to ride. Small chop? what was that? Square edges feel just like whoop faces - the bike just rises beneath you after you hear the oil s-q-u-i-r-t through the valving. Whoops - it rides itself, never swaps or falls in, even with very little effort. Drop off to a flat landing? No clunks, no sore ankles - just squiiish. And the quickest, most controlled return to ride height that I have ever ridden. That last one is a key point -very few tuners even adress rebound behaviour, and this bike was perfect, IMO.

The Sherco is dialed in, many iterations of valving. I can appreciate good suspension, even if the best you've ridden is indeed hte best you know. I have some work to do!

Superplush exemplifies it's namesake: super plush, to say the least. Oustanding work, Mr Siddal!

[terry.mc]

My turn...

I got to ride Neds SPS worked 450MXC this weekend in Taylor Park (We got all the kinda rocks you can imiagine, big ones, small ones, round ones, pointy ones, so come on down....)

The suspension was like cheating it was soooo easy to manage over rock gardens that would normally make me cringe, bobble, deflect, recover and start boucing off of things again. I felt bad for Ned after he turned the bike over to me, because he wasn't getting it back for the rest of the day. objects in the trail that previously required at least a cursory examination or even a line simply fade into background noise.

[Renazco]

Update, got my SPS back from James a couple of weeks ago and all I can say is WOW!!
One of my riding buddies had a chance to ride my bike and he smiled like a school girl after getting off, he's now on James's calender.

I don't know what James is doing different but it works
Best suspension I've ever had, period!

[neduro]

Originally Posted by terry.mc

I felt bad for Ned after he turned the bike over to me, because he wasn't getting it back for the rest of the day.

Terry's being nice. He dropped me like a bad habit, when I got on his ill-behaved WR and he on my SPS equipped machine. So much for rider superiority...

Boejangles- glad to hear you like it! I told you he's good...

[Renazco]

Originally Posted by neduro

Boejangles- glad to hear you like it! I told you he's good...

I didn't think I would feel that much of a difference between some of the others I've used,,, was I wrong!

[neduro]

Originally Posted by boejangles

I didn't think I would feel that much of a difference between some of the others I've used,,, was I wrong!

To me, it's all about the subtlety of how his setup allows you to feel traction, which requires a certain degree of feedback, yet remains plush and stable, which requires the opposite, soaking stuff up.

I could never have developed that suspension- I didn't think it was possible for it to work that well, so I would have quit long before it got nearly that good. For that reason, I think we can thank Jonah as well as Mr. Siddall...