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Old 04-22-2014, 05:37 PM   #1
GetYourOwn OP
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GASGAS kickstart gear replacement

So I broke the kickstart gear on my 07 GasGas Pro 300. I have the new parts incliuding shaft, kickstart pawl, idler gear and various circlips and seals. Anybody know of a step by step in doing the replacement. Doing my research I saw there used to be a video that showed a guy installing the shaft but it looks like it was taken down. I know the kickstart pawl needs to be indexed somehow to the shaft but I am a little fuzzy on the particuliars.
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:52 PM   #2
lineaway
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Snell`s videos disappeared while Jim was in Spain. I posted on another site how to index the shaft, I`ll try to find it.
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:02 PM   #3
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:06 PM   #4
lineaway
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It`s not as easy as it would seem. As you install it you also have to rotate the shaft while the spring is in place 360 degrees to give it proper tension. ( use the kick starter) Take pics of the old shaft, like a dozen during removal.
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:14 PM   #5
GetYourOwn OP
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Thanks for the picture. I will give it a go.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:31 AM   #6
motobene
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I'm curious about what exactly broke in your assembly that you'd be changing the whole assembly. Gear chip? Gear tooth, whole gear, spring... something else?

I continue to come at the kick start lever in a follow-through kick. I do not engage the gear first then kick. Mine is not a sloppy jab-slap kick but very precise and it feels really clean. The follow through kick is very clean and the bike starts every time first kick. So far (knock on skull), no problems.
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:32 PM   #7
GetYourOwn OP
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The bike is new to me and I was kicking it like a 4 stroke by trying to find TDC. Later after I broke the pawl (Sheared it off the kickstart shaft) I found out that you do not want to kick the bike with resistance at the top. I bought the shaft and the pawl becasue I thought they were a matched set (these are not). I also chipped the idler gear so that had to be replaced as well.
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:48 PM   #8
lineaway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motobene View Post
I'm curious about what exactly broke in your assembly that you'd be changing the whole assembly. Gear chip? Gear tooth, whole gear, spring... something else?

I continue to come at the kick start lever in a follow-through kick. I do not engage the gear first then kick. Mine is not a sloppy jab-slap kick but very precise and it feels really clean. The follow through kick is very clean and the bike starts every time first kick. So far (knock on skull), no problems.
Bene, The shaft and pawl has been updated several times. In this case he did not need to buy the shaft. The older ones shaft would not accept the updated pawl.l The pawl is still the weak link, especially on the 300. The idler gear almost always gets damaged and in worst case the primary gear. Too bad Gas Gas does not offer the whole assembly as one unit, as it can be quite a frustrating job!
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:45 AM   #9
slicktop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetYourOwn View Post
So I broke the kickstart gear on my 07 GasGas Pro 300. I have the new parts incliuding shaft, kickstart pawl, idler gear and various circlips and seals. Anybody know of a step by step in doing the replacement. Doing my research I saw there used to be a video that showed a guy installing the shaft but it looks like it was taken down. I know the kickstart pawl needs to be indexed somehow to the shaft but I am a little fuzzy on the particuliars.
Just so you dont feel alone, my Beta evo 300 is having the same operation as you for the 4th time. This go around it is recieving 2014 kick shaft, idler gear, clutch basket, and flywheel.
Thankfully, Beta USA is taking the hit. I am becoming a defacto Beta service tech.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:25 AM   #10
lineaway
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Slick top, this has happened to hundreds of gassers. I have never seen a Beta with your issues. They are missing something , like a damaged primary shaft. Good luck on your bike.
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:35 PM   #11
slicktop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
Slick top, this has happened to hundreds of gassers. I have never seen a Beta with your issues. They are missing something , like a damaged primary shaft. Good luck on your bike.
Thanks. I'm good, but want to get over the hollow feeling in my gut everytime I kick it over. I had no idea the kicker was an issue on the gassers. On every day a little rain must fall.
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:58 AM   #12
motobene
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicktop View Post
Thanks. I'm good, but want to get over the hollow feeling in my gut everytime I kick it over. I had no idea the kicker was an issue on the gassers. On every day a little rain must fall.
Don't worry, be happy and ride. The problem is not huge, or there would not be more Gassers sold than the others, nor would there be so many repeat GasGas customers.

A fellow with a very hopped up 2011 Beta 300 swapped bikes with me on Sunday. He said it was his first time on a Gas Gas. He could not start my bike after many, many kicks! It was painful to watch him resting his right foot on the lever then kicking downward in short leg-extension jabs. I was worried he might break something, so I stepped in and lit it off first kick, even though he had just jostled the bike into an over-rich mixture. A little more open throttle, a massive impulse, and bruuung!

While one could focus on more or less delicate pawls relative to the varying designs, I think user technique is critical. This follows the observation that some people tend to break things much more than others. Some folks are just hard on machines. This varies with the degree of 'machine awareness' a person may have. Just like differences in riding techniques. It's like the difference between un weights and hops using slow deeper movements of the legs versus jabbing at the bike with the arms.

I suppose pawls could break even with clean technique, such as with some fluke pawl engagements, but obviously, there are better and worse ways to kick start a bike. Our habits do influence the troubles we have, or seem to never have.

Some say the only safe way to be safe is to engage the pawl, then kick, but I have found I cannot kick through as cleanly that way. But whatever technique you use, efficiency and slow forcefulness are good medicine for avoiding kick start gear problems.

My personal technique is to stand off the bike to the side and kick left footed, with a rearward motion, knee and hip somewhat locked with all my lower body mass following through. I engage the pawl by coming at the swung-out lever with my foot. It's a bit of a wind-up in a rearward motion and not a jabbing, downward motion. The pawl has time to slide home fully before my mass loads the system up. I can engage the pawl by resting my foot on the lever then give it a forceful impulse, but I have found coming at the lever reduces the need for knee extension, which slows down the required motions.

If you find yourself multiple kicking to start your bike, there's a good chance your technique is lacking. It will only get worse if you get tired or frustrated. Collecting yourself for a good, a single, clean kick can help prevent possible problems.

motobene screwed with this post 04-30-2014 at 11:31 AM
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:10 PM   #13
slicktop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motobene View Post
Don't worry, be happy and ride. The problem is not huge, or there would not be more Gassers sold than the others, nor would there be so many repeat GasGas customers.

A fellow with a very hopped up 2011 Beta 300 swapped bikes with me on Sunday. He said it was his first time on a Gas Gas. He could not start my bike after many, many kicks! It was painful to watch him resting his right foot on the lever then kicking downward in short leg-extension jabs. I was worried he might break something, so I stepped in and lit it off first kick, even though he had just jostled the bike into an over-rich mixture. A little more open throttle, a massive impulse, and bruuung!

While one could focus on more or less delicate pawls relative to the varying designs, I think user technique is critical. This follows the observation that some people tend to break things much more than others. Some folks are just hard on machines. This varies with the degree of 'machine awareness' a person may have. Just like differences in riding techniques. It's like the difference between un weights and hops using slow deeper movements of the legs versus jabbing at the bike with the arms.

I suppose pawls could break even with clean technique, such as with some fluke pawl engagements, but obviously, there are better and worse ways to kick start a bike. Our habits do influence the troubles we have, or seem to never have.

Some say the only safe way to be safe is to engage the pawl, then kick, but I have found I cannot kick through as cleanly that way. But whatever technique you use, efficiency and slow forcefulness are good medicine for avoiding kick start gear problems.

My personal technique is to stand off the bike to the side and kick left footed, with a rearward motion, knee and hip somewhat locked with all my lower body mass following through. I engage the pawl by coming at the swung-out lever with my foot. It's a bit of a wind-up in a rearward motion and not a jabbing, downward motion. The pawl has time to slide home fully before my mass loads the system up. I can engage the pawl by resting my foot on the lever then give it a forceful impulse, but I have found coming at the lever reduces the need for knee extension, which slows down the required motions.

If you find yourself multiple kicking to start your bike, there's a good chance your technique is lacking. It will only get worse if you get tired or frustrated. Collecting yourself for a good, a single, clean kick can help prevent possible problems.
Ok, I have analyzed my starting technique and discarded the idea that I am doing something wrong. The Beta starts first kick every time. Even when the gears strip it will start first. Beta has stated that they had a run of gears that had metallurgy issues.
The new fix is to replace all gears on the clutch side with 2014 parts of which they have redesigned the idler and clutch basket gear by changing the ratio.
Whereas the idler was a large diameter, it is now smaller and the gear on the basket is larger in diameter.
I believe this will fix the issue for good.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:09 AM   #14
motobene
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicktop View Post
The Beta starts first kick every time. Even when the gears strip it will start first. Beta has stated that they had a run of gears that had metallurgy issues.
Glad it was not something you were doing, but I thought it good to mention rider habits as the user is a big variable in the reliability of any machine.

Manufacturing process variations are always a possibility in causes of problems. Making gears tough is a long-known technology in base alloys, machining practices, and heat treatments (case or through hardening). But one guy with a hangover at the heat treat vendor can sure ruin a lot of gears, and they can look just the same as when done right. With a metallurgy problem you can get the heat treat right on, but the end result will be off. Percent carbon really affects hardenability. Hardenability enhancing alloys are also very important. A typical tactic in gears is high alloy but lower percent carbon. Then they case harden the gear, which infuses carbon into the surface for a hard surface hardness for wear resistance, yet the inside is soft and thus less prone to crack and rupture suddenly. A good allow for gears is ASTM 8620. High alloy yet only 0.2% carbon.

Looks like they also initiated a design change as well. A smaller idler and bigger gear on the basket means they geared the ratio down. I recall kicking Betas before and noting high force but a nice spin up of the motor once things started moving (like my Fantic). Looks like they are moving to a ratio more like the others.

motobene screwed with this post 05-01-2014 at 09:17 AM
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Old 05-21-2014, 07:16 PM   #15
GetYourOwn OP
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I got it all together but the kick start was binding. Finding some threads on another site I believe it is because the kick start shaft is not seated all the way. There are two holes where the tang on the spring could be placed. I believe the tang goes in the hole on the right but I am not sure. Can anybody verify which hole the tang goes into.


Also how tight should the clutch basket bolts be tightened

Thanks
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