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Old 10-22-2009, 04:15 PM   #376
PecosBill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlearl476
I recall seeing something somewhere that the Touareg was in the top five in the JD Power customer dissatisfaction for a bit. I don't know if that was true of the Cayenne as well.
We'll see if my opinion changes when the TDI Cayenne shows up.
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:20 PM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc.Snyder

Of course, it has more pedigree

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Old 10-22-2009, 04:20 PM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc.Snyder
So... my photos mean nothing, huh?

You apparently don't know the full Story.

A buddy of mine was there as a reporter. You can see his Defender recovering a Cayenne in one of the pics.

Many stages were cancelled - especially in Mongolia - when the terrain was too difficult for the Porsches.

Lots of accidents, lots of breakdowns that were mentioned nowhere.
This story caused an outrage in the european offroad scene.

The Cayennes performed well in High speed, moderate terrain. No question.

If they had to go the complete, original route ... only a handful would have survived. Of course, the Rallye was changed to make it more SUV friendly.


However, this Rallye 911 outpaced many Cayennes and even took the lead. But it's only a private team without Factory support. So they had to give up... I love those Rallye 911
So your saying that the rallye 911 would handle rougher terrain better than a Cayenne?

Your right, we heard nothing about reroutes or stage cancellations. I only know that Porsche took 9 out of the top 10. Pretty impressive for a 4 wheel drive grocery getter.
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:26 PM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
So your saying that the rallye 911 would handle rougher terrain better than a Cayenne?

Strange enough, but it did. LOL without 4x4, btw

But they didn't have that:




, so they had to give up...
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:33 PM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P B G
Of course, it has more pedigree

Hell Yeah! Not some stupid 5000 +lb. truck for people who felt that a Tahoe was too lowbrow.
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:41 PM   #381
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What was it, in 84 they went to Dakar with a 911 equipped with 959 drivetrain/diffs, took 1st or 2nd? 85 DNF, 86 1, 2, and 6?

I think that's how it went.

Eitherway.

^ impressed.

I don't mind Porsche making the Cayenne, its not a bad SUV.

I wouldn't buy one, just because what's the point of having an SUV that you don't use? And no one who buys one legitimately goes, heck yes, I'm gonna offroad race it.

Not that people say that about 911's but the 911's were built as sportscars, and rallying has always been part of that. The racing suv segment.... eh...
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:55 PM   #382
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Porsche 959
2.8l 6cyl boxer, 4wd, 450hp, 3.7s 0-60, 315 km/h

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Old 10-22-2009, 07:46 PM   #383
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Relax

It's just my efficient way of discerning the adults from the whiny kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scodill
Dude why polute the Porsche thread? Start a Corvair thread.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:16 PM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P B G
What was it, in 84 they went to Dakar with a 911 equipped with 959 drivetrain/diffs, took 1st or 2nd? 85 DNF, 86 1, 2, and 6?

I think that's how it went.

IIRC, the 959 was a purpose built rally car specifically built for Dakar. The only reason there are road-going 959s is to comply with "production" class regs for rallying.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:44 PM   #385
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I'm curious why there seems to be a strong following for the
air cooled motors? Several of my friends have them and complain
about over heating, weak air conditioning etc

I've mentioned before I'm no expert on cars. I was a motorcycle
mechanic in the 70's. I'm all for the water cooled bikes and was
just interested in desire for the "Old school" stuff.
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:19 PM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlearl476
IIRC, the 959 was a purpose built rally car specifically built for Dakar. The only reason there are road-going 959s is to comply with "production" class regs for rallying.
Actually no, it was not originally slatted for Dakar. If I remember some of the story, they meant to compete in the Group B division for road racing. But there wasn't really a class for that, most Group B cars competed in rallying, which Porsche didn't want to compete in.

So sometime during production they took a shift from racing and developped the full 959 as an engineering test bed / concept.

They did however use versions of it for the Dakar race, and also at LeMans, they didn't develop the race car they originally had intended, but they did produce quite the auto.

As far as the whole aircooled thing.

An aircooled engine is just a different animal, yes they suffer from overheating if you are sitting still in traffic, the AC systems were also weak, and you can't run them when stopped in traffic or you overheat. Also they tend to be noisy, and have crappy heaters.

But that's the thing you don't buy an aircooled Porsche because its the best daily driver. You do it because they are just animals.

Same reason the Aircooled BMW motorcycles have such a following, and VW aircooled cars have a following.

And yes, Harley Davidson has a following and can't sell the Porsche engineered liquid cooled ones easily.

Porsche was forced into liquid cooling, and the cars are more comfy because of it.

But from experience at car shows, its not just Porsche's overheating. idle a ferrari, or lambo, or many old british cars and they don't like it either.

These are cars engineered to be going fast, not sitting at stop lights.
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:59 AM   #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric
I'm curious why there seems to be a strong following for the
air cooled motors? Several of my friends have them and complain
about over heating, weak air conditioning etc

I've mentioned before I'm no expert on cars. I was a motorcycle
mechanic in the 70's. I'm all for the water cooled bikes and was
just interested in desire for the "Old school" stuff.

A lot of us hang on tenaciously to the original concept of simplicity. Like PBG said, you'll notice a lot of the same people that love 911's, love all things air cooled, especially German boxers. As Porsche has developed the boxer to modern standards, with water cooling and more complicated electronics, it has become a better modern day vehicle, but it seems to be losing it's soul. That being said, I wouldn't mind a new 997 2S sitting in my garage, just for a daily driver.

I'll pass on the Turbo or GT3 with the electronically controlled dynamic engine mounts though... probably... unless you really twist my arm... and put a gun to my head...
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:22 AM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlearl476
I recall seeing something somewhere that the Touareg was in the top five in the JD Power customer dissatisfaction for a bit. I don't know if that was true of the Cayenne as well.

Land Rovers used to always be near the top of the list for lack of reliability ... but near the top of the list for user satisfaction. It's just tough to build a complicated, heavy 4x4 that is 100% reliable.
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:23 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by PirateJohn
Land Rovers used to always be near the top of the list for lack of reliability ... but near the top of the list for user satisfaction. It's just tough to build a complicated, heavy 4x4 that is 100% reliable.

nah... just buy a Unimog.
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:32 AM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecosBill
nah... just buy a Unimog.

We think alike.

Personally, I'd be interested in a more off-road oriented Cayenne ... but aside from the Transsiberian they don't seem to exist.
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