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Old 07-25-2014, 05:43 PM   #31
1derer
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Run the Michelin Desert Race in the front and I have to agree highway travel gives a new meaning to terror. I run D908 in rear. I love this combo for dirt best I have had for 50/50 I'm ready to try something else highway travel is just too sketchy.



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Originally Posted by mmurry View Post
burned up the rear on my SE pretty dang fast... the front truly is terrifying on the highway... but awesome on dirt.... going to try TKC's when my mich enduro's are done..
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:47 PM   #32
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Been riding more dirt lately. After bad results with Heidenau rear on a Copper Canyon trip, I have switched to the Mefo rear along with TKC front on 990 Adventure. Still a compromise setup with good on road behavior and decent performance for milder dirt. Looks like I will get 4000+ out of the TKC front. Too early to tell on the Mefo.

FWIW
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:38 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renogeorge View Post
Been riding more dirt lately. After bad results with Heidenau rear on a Copper Canyon trip, I have switched to the Mefo rear along with TKC front on 990 Adventure. Still a compromise setup with good on road behavior and decent performance for milder dirt. Looks like I will get 4000+ out of the TKC front. Too early to tell on the Mefo.

FWIW
What happened with the Heidenau rear? Have one sitting in the garage but haven't put it on yet.
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:46 PM   #34
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Both front and rears are at best just slightly better than a street tire in terms of off road performance. They are a little unpredictable (although bearable) on wet pavement. The profile on the 150/18 rear on the stock Adventure wheel is the flattest I have seen on anything this side of a car tire. But they do wear like iron. I was pushing 9K on the rear when removed. It still had a good 1000 or so in it.

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Old 07-25-2014, 07:48 PM   #35
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I've used 3 of the new version Deserts.

Not much difference to the original ones that I could tell. Felt the same, hooked up the same and lasted the same.
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Old 07-25-2014, 09:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanya View Post
I've used 3 of the new version Deserts.

Not much difference to the original ones that I could tell. Felt the same, hooked up the same and lasted the same.
Cool. Some have said it's significantly different construction than the orig. What kind of miles did you get from them?


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Old 07-26-2014, 04:49 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by DYNOBOB View Post
Cool. Some have said it's significantly different construction than the orig. What kind of miles did you get from them?
.
I tend to be pretty hard on the tires, so don't get great milage out of any knobbed tires generally.

Once up to a jamboree, I was on gravel most of the way just tripping on my own and put it on with about 1400km to go (had an old version on before). I took the direct route back on tar for 1200km sitting mostly at 150kph into a really strong headwind the whole way. It was toast after that.

All tires can be destroyed in a few hours with not much effort. If tripping lots and ripping seldom, I think can give about 3-5000km depending on the surface.

I like their feel - they hook up well, have good tar manners when needed, never had a puncture (have ultra heavy duty tubes), slide predictably, need very little balance weight.

Not the best wet tar tire about, knobs are a bit soft to start - need some heat cycles, in my world are difficult to get hold of, not cheap.

I have new one left, but these days I prefer the Mitas E09.
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Old 07-27-2014, 08:03 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanya View Post
I tend to be pretty hard on the tires, so don't get great milage out of any knobbed tires generally.

Once up to a jamboree, I was on gravel most of the way just tripping on my own and put it on with about 1400km to go (had an old version on before). I took the direct route back on tar for 1200km sitting mostly at 150kph into a really strong headwind the whole way. It was toast after that.

All tires can be destroyed in a few hours with not much effort. If tripping lots and ripping seldom, I think can give about 3-5000km depending on the surface.

I like their feel - they hook up well, have good tar manners when needed, never had a puncture (have ultra heavy duty tubes), slide predictably, need very little balance weight.

Not the best wet tar tire about, knobs are a bit soft to start - need some heat cycles, in my world are difficult to get hold of, not cheap.

I have new one left, but these days I prefer the Mitas E09.
Hi Andrew,

I am curious about why you prefer the Mitas? Is it wear? How do you rate the E09 over the Desert on wet tarmac?

My experience so far is only with Pirelli MT21. I like those, but the rear wears fast. Have been considering the E09, but have read some comments about them being very unpredictable on wet tar. And where i live, wet tarmac is hard to avoid. Not expecting road tire performance of course, just something that behaves not much worse than the MT21
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:43 AM   #39
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Both of them once worn in are pretty good. I'd give the Desert the one up here over the 09. Right out of the shop the 09 is a bit slick.

Pro's and cons of both;

09
Cons;


Needs a good run of heat cycles, say 10 or so before you can spank it. Being a complete stupid twat I ruined one in 31km. It was an expensive lesson.



I have found they need a lot of balance weights, worst tire I've had needed 180grams.

They have really hard sidewalls so a trail side puncture is going to be a bit tough. Every guy on the tire machine has done a bit of swearing getting them on. you can sit on them off the rim and you won't get it to change shape. On the plus side they are highly puncture resilient.

They have less feeling than the Desert, mostly because I think of the sidewalls.

Pro's

If treated well for the first few cycles, they last really well. I rode a 3 day multistage Dakar type 2000km rally where I came 9th out of 44. I did the whole thing on one tyre. It was mostly hard shale gravel, desert rocks, riverbeds and sand and a tiny bit of tar for some of the liaisons. This is it at the end. It is still doing duty as my commute tire.



Quite a few have had de-lamination because of this. They put it on then cruise at 150kph with lots of acceleration on tar. They ride it like a Scorpion. That big middle knob is the problem - it moves about under stress and makes the internals go mushy. Once about 2mm is off the knob and it is fully cured, then it will take all sorts of abuse, till then, it is not a tar hooligan tire.

If you like to steer with the rear, they do this well and don't misbehave or let go and catch suddenly. On tar they have a progressive feel both under acceleration and braking. Again they don't suddenly let go.

They are a proper 150 width - bit better in thick sand than the deserts.

Because of the width and sidewall strength they are really good to the rims. You are going to have to whack something extra special hard to den a rim with these on.

Can be ridden at really low pressures because of the sidewall. (I know of a guy who is pretty big and he didn't even know he had a puncture for 60k's)

They are relatively cheap.

Very tough tire.

I would put them on grip just south of the Desert, about the same as a 908RR

I haven't ridden them in mud. Not sure how they go in that.

Desert

Cons

Difficult to get hold of and more expensive

Wear a little quicker than the 09's

It is a 140 width

Pro's

It has a pedigree.

It has a lot of feeling and does the job across just about anything.

It grips a bit better on the hard stuff and gravel till about halfway down, then after that, I don't think anyone would be able to tell them apart.

Never had a puncture.

Amazing on tar once a bit worn, even in the wet.

Easier to get on. I've taken them off by hand in my garage. But wouldn't like to do it trail side. Any of these big tires are a bitch.



For the lighter bikes, the 09 is a bit much. Once they are both worn to about half, it would be hard to tell the difference.

They both don't do much to the steering. Some tires like the Scorpion make the bike feel like it falls into the corners, these change that and make it much more neutral.

For both I like for the front - in order of preference Mitas C23 (crap for the first 100k's - very slippery) Michelin Desert front, Dunlop 606. I rotate them alot before the cupping starts.
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Old 07-27-2014, 02:27 PM   #40
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Why do you guys balance knobbies?
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Old 07-27-2014, 02:52 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumi View Post
Why do you guys balance knobbies?
I don't only ride offroad. It bothers me on tar.

For the Scorpions and some Knobs like the desert, it isn't needed. But a few E09's have really needed it.
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Old 07-27-2014, 03:00 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanya View Post
I don't only ride offroad. It bothers me on tar.

For the Scorpions and some Knobs like the desert, it isn't needed. But a few E09's have really needed it.
Ahm, I see. Thanks!
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:40 PM   #43
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Kamanya, Thanks for the detailed info. I sense you're a far more aggressive rider than I am. I'm looking for long wear, traction, and puncture resistance for off-road DS touring. The D908 has served me well for 3400mi so far and looks to have a couple thousand left in it. We're doing a 2800mi off-road ride in a few weeks and I'm debating on whether to change and what to. My biggest concern w/ the newer Desert Race was it having a softer, less tough carcass than the orig (or 908) since it's optimized for the 450s. Sounds like it's still pretty tough. Thanks

D908 at 3400mi

..

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Old 07-28-2014, 05:07 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanya View Post
I don't only ride offroad. It bothers me on tar.

For the Scorpions and some Knobs like the desert, it isn't needed. But a few E09's have really needed it.
+1 and if you run rim locks they are usually at least 4 oz out of balance. I had a MT21 rear on my 690 that was actually bouncing at 60 mph.
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:16 AM   #45
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Thanks Kamanya for the detailed answer, interesting to read that in your experience the Desert behave well on wet tar, some people say they are like riding in ice on wet...
I find a comparative experience (like yours, des. vs 09) far more valuable than just an opinion.

When you refer to Scorps, which one is that? Pirelli calls them all Scorpions......(Trail, AT, Rally), but funny enough, the MT21 is just named Rallycross, without the Scorpion pre-fix....
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