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Old 08-12-2009, 09:24 PM   #16
M N B
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Dealers pretty much never order non-abs models because so many people buying beemers would rather rely on ABS than learn how to use their brakes well.

(ducks)

Seriously, you cannot get a non-abs model from any of the local dealers without ordering it. If the ABS didn't suck so much, I wouldn't mind, but it's terrible. It engages rolling over a reflector at 2mph on dry surfaces. I only got ABS because I didn't want to wait 3 months.

One time, I entered a turn and ABS kicked in, despite there being no need to, limited their braking, and because of this, it nearly sent me over a freaking cliff. The system was determined to be 'working as designed.'

I wish it has ABSII, like my '97 K1100LT. It may be much older tech, but it wasn't over aggressive and nearly getting me killed kicking in when it shouldn't.
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M N B screwed with this post 08-13-2009 at 04:48 AM
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:28 PM   #17
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gotten the ABS, myself. was a deal breaker for me on this buy, On/Off ABS. Suzuki couldnt deliver, had they come up with it, I wouldve saved a few thousand euros and would now be touring europe instead of waiting on the friggin dealership to swap suspension coils.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:21 PM   #18
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Thanks for the replies. Also wondering how much experience do those ppl have that wanted/needed it. I started riding on the streets for a year before switching to dirt and that probably have helped me more than any ABS ever would. Still remember this time maybe 20 yrs ago I was on my '83 GSX, leaning over pretty hard in a sweeper and a rabbit suddenly runs out in front, I even think to myself if I run him (or her..?) over Im probably gonna slide my front so I squeeze my front brake with one finger lightly, bike stands up just a wee bit but I scrub off enough speed to avoid the animal. But then again, Im older now, prob have slower reflexes (but I also dont dare to ride as fast).
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knutte-bor-i-amerika
Thanks for the replies. Also wondering how much experience do those ppl have that wanted/needed it. I started riding on the streets for a year before switching to dirt and that probably have helped me more than any ABS ever would.
Indeed- dirt is amazing. I have a dozen years of experience and I teach, and I do plenty of dirt. I can usually sift out the non-dirt-experience folks because they complain about how ABS engages too quickly on the rear in dirt. Yeah, but the front brake works just fine on dirt if you aren't afraid of it..

I love having the insurance policy of ABS. It lets me use 100% of the brakes, rather than being conservative at 85% to keep from sliding things. It's hard to beat on the street- sure, in the theoretical world, it's beatable by an expert. In reality? Not so much.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:33 PM   #20
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There are a number of ABS threads. After looking at the difference in braking performance between even the most skilled riders versus a new rider with ABS on wet roads, I sold my non-ABS DL650 and bought the ABS model. It's a deal-breaker for many V-Strom owners (a $500, 7 lb option) and the percentage of ABS bikes seems to be increasing, especially for high mileage riders who are more likely to be riding in the rain.

The first article I read that convinced me was: http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html but there are others equally persuasive.

The DL650 ABS does not have a switch: you have to buy an aftermarket harness and switch - $10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knutte-bor-i-amerika
//In my 25-30 yrs of riding I have never needed ABS on a motorcycle, in a car, yes. //
I've been riding since 1980 and never needed it yet, either.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:33 PM   #21
vidd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knutte-bor-i-amerika
Thanks for the replies. Also wondering how much experience do those ppl have that wanted/needed it. I started riding on the streets for a year before switching to dirt and that probably have helped me more than any ABS ever would. Still remember this time maybe 20 yrs ago I was on my '83 GSX, leaning over pretty hard in a sweeper and a rabbit suddenly runs out in front, I even think to myself if I run him (or her..?) over Im probably gonna slide my front so I squeeze my front brake with one finger lightly, bike stands up just a wee bit but I scrub off enough speed to avoid the animal. But then again, Im older now, prob have slower reflexes (but I also dont dare to ride as fast).
we all have stories.
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:55 AM   #22
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You should only need to hear one genuine story about how someone 'needed' ABS to sold on it.

It can save YOURS or someone else's life.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:07 AM   #23
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Very interesting thread. Personally I had to have a F800 without ABS and
found one at a local dealer. I have a R1200GS with ABS and almost lost
it a few times because of the ABS on the dirt roads. If I could turn it off
and it would stay off that would work for me. But having to remember
to turn the ABS off after every restart is a pain. Last fall I was out on
a group dirt ride on roads I'd never been on before. There was a STEEP
down hill, loose gravel with a very busy paved road at the bottom.
I ended up in the middle of that street before I could stop. The ABS on
loose gravel was like having no brakes at all. Never again for me.
I have over 40 years riding with lots of time in the dirt. I have no problem
without ABS offroad. On road its a valuable tool.
Just my opinion.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:19 AM   #24
reinerka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knutte-bor-i-amerika
Thanks for the replies. Also wondering how much experience do those ppl have that wanted/needed it.
I clocked aver 400,000 miles in the last 10 years on bikes. I commute 50 miles each way every day no matter what the weather forecast or actual says.

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Old 08-13-2009, 08:40 AM   #25
Law Dawg (ret)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knutte-bor-i-amerika
Thanks for the replies. Also wondering how much experience do those ppl have that wanted/needed it.

...Im probably gonna slide my front so I squeeze my front brake with one finger lightly, bike stands up just a wee bit but I scrub off enough speed to avoid the animal.
I have been riding pavement since 1972 when ATGATT was a Bell 3/4 helmet, full denims, work boots, and leather garden gloves. Rode mostly dirt before that. My bike has been my primary (year around hot/cold/wet/dry) source of transportation for years (the bride gets the cage). I know how to brake and have done so under duress many times in 38+ years. If ABS is seen as the lazy mans way or if someone wants to see me as unwilling to "learn" how to brake...that's OK by me. I'll just clamp things down all the way and let tech stop me better than anyone under the pressure of an OHHHHH SCAT moment can (short of Rossi). The F800GS is my first bike with ABS and I am hooked. Those who argue against it may be like those who said "My left foot and hand is for the clutch and shifter. Anyone who wants to use their left hand/foot for a clutch (on the handlebars) and shifter (on the floorboard) is lazy".

You can still touch that front, in a curve, to avoid the odd rabbit/cat/dog/etc the ABS comes on when you clamp down ie lose traction. Sounds like you have a grip on the need to stay off your brakes in curves anyway. The ABS can be turned off before you begin to roll if you want to work at things more when fractions of a second can mean the difference between survival and road sausage.
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt Diver
You should only need to hear one genuine story about how someone 'needed' ABS to sold on it.

It can save YOURS or someone else's life.
So if you heard ONE story about how driving a car instead of riding a bike would've saved somebodys life would that be enough to sell you on it? It could save you.

I know, a bit of a ridiculous example , and I DO get your point and I see that it is that black and white for many here......and that's great. It's just everything has trade offs. There are lots of ways to increase safety on motorcycles with added cost and complexity, and sometimes a downside, where do you draw the line? Most ABS would work better if riders always ran the stickiest rubber they can, yet we compromise because of a price point or the trouble of changing tires multiple times on a trip....but it could save your life with a shorter stopping distance.

To the original poster regarding everyones experience here, I think you'll find ABS supporters all across the board. As you've heard already some very experienced riders won't own a bike without it , I'm sure some of these guys could out brake a majority of riders in a competition on equal bikes, so I would never categorize these as riders who need more skill, simply riders who have a certain set of priorities.
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:41 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Dave
So if you heard ONE story about how driving a car instead of riding a bike would've saved somebodys life would that be enough to sell you on it? It could save you.

I know, a bit of a ridiculous example , and I DO get your point and I see that it is that black and white for many here......and that's great. It's just everything has trade offs. There are lots of ways to increase safety on motorcycles with added cost and complexity, and sometimes a downside, where do you draw the line? Most ABS would work better if riders always ran the stickiest rubber they can, yet we compromise because of a price point or the trouble of changing tires multiple times on a trip....but it could save your life with a shorter stopping distance.

To the original poster regarding everyones experience here, I think you'll find ABS supporters all across the board. As you've heard already some very experienced riders won't own a bike without it , I'm sure some of these guys could out brake a majority of riders in a competition on equal bikes, so I would never categorize these as riders who need more skill, simply riders who have a certain set of priorities.
I am not sure what you just said Dave. FWIW, my F800 does not have ABS. People extolling the virtues of ABS generally do not know what they are talking about. It is probably the greatest triumph of marketing over physics in the history of the world.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:00 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
People extolling the virtues of ABS generally do not know what they are talking about.
Yeah, that's it. We're all just too stupid.

Give me a break, tmex.

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Old 08-13-2009, 10:09 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
People extolling the virtues of ABS generally do not know what they are talking about. It is probably the greatest triumph of marketing over physics in the history of the world.
When some cage pulls out in front of you on wet pavement and you land on your ass you can explain that statement to me while I am looking down at you.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushwhacker
When some cage pulls out in front of you on wet pavement and you land on your ass you can explain that statement to me while I am looking down at you.
I am fully aware of the test results showing that even skilled riders can stop more quickly on wet pavement with ABS. What these tests do not point out is that this is the ONLY situation in which a skilled rider can stop more quickly. Every other situation - dry, dirt, snow, you name it, a non-ABS equipped bike will stop more quickly than a bike equipped with ABS. Why would any reasonable person decide to add weight, cost, and complexity to deal with a singularity - being able to stop slightly faster in the rain?

The chart below illustrates my point for dirt performance. For those you who are graphically challenged longer stopping distances are worse.

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