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Old 08-14-2009, 02:27 PM   #61
Law Dawg (ret)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayner
Law Dog
See post #5.
I intend to see what it does on bumpy, smooth, snotty, dry, etc pavement. Also want to work some mild to moderate to extreme turning with it engaged. The idea is to find out where it gets overloaded and where it shines. Then the plan is to work on the developement of personal muscle memory in the areas where it shines. Play to the strengths as it were...just like we did with standard brakes.
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Old 08-14-2009, 02:31 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
The unsold 800GS's on my dealer's floor are the ones without ABS. Hmm...
Like I said GB, ABS is the greatest triumph of marketing over physics in the history of the world. ABS bikes also are easier to resell. All that proves is that the people who want ABS outnumber the people who do not want it. Apparently you believe that truth is determined by majority vote. Any student of history can refute that notion with relative ease.
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:19 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
Apparently you believe that truth is determined by majority vote.
And you accuse me of taking cheap shots...

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

David
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:23 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodWorks
And you accuse me of taking cheap shots...

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

David
Woody? There is no cheap shot in my post. I am missing your point.
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:40 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
How come you get to pick everything? What's up with that? What is the prize? This test has some obvious flaws not the least of which is rider skill. I honestly believe I could easily win this test everytime with relative ease. Where are you proposing to conduct this test? I cannot tell where you live from your signature. Maybe the fact that no one has taken you up on it is that the road is in Tazmania.

Relative to your comment above about Swedish roll over tests are being done without any braking and that ABS has no impact - duh? You want to try rewording that. I am sure that cannot be what you meant.
So it is uncharted territory for all riders participating. We're not talking a track test with perfect road conditions and multiple practice runs until you are able to outperform ABS. If I told you where you could practice the whole exercise is mute. I can tell you that this test would be performed somehwere in Northern California.

For the Swedish "Elk" test - yes no breaking to classify the roll over risk of a vehicle. The test got famous in Europe when one luxury manufacturer introduced a small car that failed consistently....... btw, the resolution to this is the famous ESP which that manufacturer invented - for high performance cars to allow rear-wheel drive be better usable.

To each his own. I know you like non-ABS. Fine with me. Nobody will convert you anyways and I'm not trying to. However bringing statistics into the equation to justify the decission is a double edged sword. The same statistics can be leveraged to show the opposite (don't trust any statistic that you have not manipulated yourself).

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Old 08-14-2009, 06:32 PM   #66
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I never had them, so on my 800 I chose not to buy them. This is my first BMW, to me it was just one more hi tech item with a chance to fail. It always seemed to me that there are lots of people whose ABS brakes saved them from a wreck. Maybe I am just lucky, but in my 40 years of riding I have had 1 near miss and ABS would not have saved me. I am very aware of my surroundings, anticipating what if scenario's and assume the cages can't see me. Seems to have worked so far. BTW the BMW brakes w/o abs seem to work pretty good.
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Old 08-14-2009, 07:28 PM   #67
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Am little surprised how this thread turned out, very interesting. I can identify with those ppl here that have a lot of experience, when you ride somewhere where you might get in trouble you ride slower and more keen. And never, ever "slam" on the brakes as you could with a car, guess dirt riding for a long time does that to you. That background has helped me more times than any ABS ever could have, even in cycling environment, my buddies have been amazed at some of the saves I've done (on the road) and I thank 2 things: dirt bike riding and not panicking.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:46 PM   #68
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Ok, I read this entire thread quickly because I wanted to reply to tmex and some of his posts but I always wanted to see if he changed his mind or if someone voiced the same opinion as I before I get redundant. Before I get into this I would like to say I am very annoyed that the ABS on the F800GS does not stay off or there is a toggle switch, I would rather not switch it off each time I go off road or restart off road.

Dude, WTF!! Why do you constantly harp on the fact that ABS equipped has shorter braking distances than a non ABS equipped? No one is arguing that. The fact is that none of us (including you) are Valentino Rossi and can accomplish that on all surfaces. You are talking about less than 10% from maximum.

Are you within 10% of max in corners? Can you achieve 10% of max braking power in an EMERGENCY situation (deer, headlights, snow, shitting your pants)? What happens when your front tire loses traction because you go to 110%? How much more distance does it take you to stop after you recover from your front tire slipping?

Also, rollovers? wtf! Who cares about cages, we are talking two wheels in hazardous emergency conditions. Did you guys consider there are more roll overs due to people on thier cell phones txting or watching a dvd/you tube video while driving???

BTW, no hard feelings, just though I would put in my $0.02
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Old 08-16-2009, 12:03 AM   #69
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I guess I repressed a second incident of a near miss in my riding history. I was riding down hill in a left hand curve on a narrow paved road in the Sierra's about 7 years ago when I met a beat ass pick up coming towards me. Already in the middle of the road and drifting towards me, the driver made no effort to correct himself and it looked like a sure collision. Still leaning over I grabbed the brakes, unintentially locking up the rear which stood the bike up while sliding the rear to very edge of the pavement. No skill here just reaction, got off the rear brake, just as the truck passed within inches of me. I am convinced that getting the bike upright and the rear end out of his line of fire saved my bacon. Serious question about an uncommon situation, what would have happened with ABS?
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Old 08-16-2009, 08:12 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm
Serious question about an uncommon situation, what would have happened with ABS?
Well, the rear wouldn't have locked up, and you may have been able to control the bike out of the way of the truck. Impossible to say without being you.

But your tale is a good example to those who think that they'll always be able to react correctly, and not "panic" in an emergency situation. Every time I read someone say something like that here, it cracks me up. There's not one of us here who won't go to grab a handful of brake during the first microsecond of an incident like that. Call it panic or "increase in adrenalin" or whatever you like. It's the same thing, and we're all going to find ourselves in a situation like that eventually if we keep riding. Whether there's enough time before impact to recover and release/modulate the brakes is the only variable here. And unless you've got the skills and nerves of steel of a racer, modern ABS is always going to do a better job of that.

David
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Old 08-16-2009, 08:53 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodWorks
Well, the rear wouldn't have locked up, and you may have been able to control the bike out of the way of the truck. Impossible to say without being you.

But your tale is a good example to those who think that they'll always be able to react correctly, and not "panic" in an emergency situation. Every time I read someone say something like that here, it cracks me up. There's not one of us here who won't go to grab a handful of brake during the first microsecond of an incident like that. Call it panic or "increase in adrenalin" or whatever you like. It's the same thing, and we're all going to find ourselves in a situation like that eventually if we keep riding. Whether there's enough time before impact to recover and release/modulate the brakes is the only variable here. And unless you've got the skills and nerves of steel of a racer, modern ABS is always going to do a better job of that.

David
Yes to all of the above.
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:33 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodWorks
Well, the rear wouldn't have locked up, and you may have been able to control the bike out of the way of the truck. Impossible to say without being you.

But your tale is a good example to those who think that they'll always be able to react correctly, and not "panic" in an emergency situation. Every time I read someone say something like that here, it cracks me up. There's not one of us here who won't go to grab a handful of brake during the first microsecond of an incident like that. Call it panic or "increase in adrenalin" or whatever you like. It's the same thing, and we're all going to find ourselves in a situation like that eventually if we keep riding. Whether there's enough time before impact to recover and release/modulate the brakes is the only variable here. And unless you've got the skills and nerves of steel of a racer, modern ABS is always going to do a better job of that.

David
Didn't mean to bring this up as an arguement against ABS but as an example where it may not be the solution to every problem.
In this circumstance I think I would have been roadkill. Your right, didn't intent to lock the rear, but once it happened, the duration was just short enough to square the corner. I knew to get off them an apply a little power.

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Old 08-16-2009, 10:52 AM   #73
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I don't wanna get into YET ANOTHER pro-con ABS debate. My pro ABS position is probably well known.

The OP asked about the f800 specifically. Personally I would not buy a f800 without it, and that means YOU should have it... if you ever intend to sell your bike to a person like me.

BMW riders who like ABS far outnumber those who don't so if you get a bike without it you are limiting your resale options and getting a lower price when you do sell IMHO.
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:03 AM   #74
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I won't disagree, except for the part where YOU tell ME what I should do. Just trying to point out that experience, situational awareness and developing your skills is more important than a mechanical device that some people may depend on as a substitute. Kinda like Harley riders "layin her down" as a substitute for brakes. To keep on thread I have an 800 w/o abs.

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Old 08-16-2009, 12:01 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xymotic
BMW riders who like ABS far outnumber those who don't so if you get a bike without it you are limiting your resale options and getting a lower price when you do sell IMHO.
That's a fair point and something I gave consideration when purchasing my bike. I wondered if I was screwing myself on resale, and ultimately it came down to I don't buy bikes for resale, I get what I want. If it does cost me in the end, oh well, wouldn't be the first time I've thrown big bucks at a machine that I'll never get back

I think you are correct that in general "BMW Riders" favor ABS more often than not, but the 800 as well as some of their other new offerings have pulled in riders from other brands instead of just the BMW faithful that won't buy a bike without the Roundel on it. I've owned one other BMW previous to this and it's been about a ten year break in between, this is the first model in that time (really since the 80s as my last BMW was an '83) that has caught my attention enough to buy one, and I'm sure I can't be alone on that. With BMW introducing some serious smaller displacement dirtbikes and a new sportbike that has the attention of riders that passed off BMW sportbikes as just a novelty in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if the typical "BMW rider" is changing its profile.
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