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Old 08-21-2009, 08:30 PM   #46
Fajita Dave
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One more thing that I have to add. If you are getting very aggressive with the throttle never apply the throttle while in the process of leaning the bike into the corner. Leaning + accelerating can cause the rear to step out suddenly. This wont happen on any kind of sane street riding but if you have a bike capable of 35+ degree lean angles and applying a lot of throttle make sure you keep the leaning and accelerating separate.

Otherwise you could end up like this guy do did exactly that. http://www.break.com/index/biker-wipes-out-on-turn.html
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Old 08-22-2009, 12:18 AM   #47
Guy Jinbaiquerre OP
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OP here. Thanks to everyone who gave advice. I think it's also amazing that not one single person razzed me for not riding well. You're a great bunch of FF's.

I'm gonna follow the tips from this thread, get the books you all recommended (except the Proficient Motorcycling books, I already have those), and try to get to a track somewhere where I can practice in a safe area. I also need to ride more on my own. I think what usually happens is I am trying so hard to keep up with other people that I don't focus on technique.
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:07 AM   #48
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Push Pull

The idea of pushing only with the inside hand, and no pull on the outside hand was a critical part of learning how to countersteer for me. Also, something else from Parks's book--if you overturn because of pushing too hard, or too long, correct with the SAME hand. Don't correct with the outside hand pushing forward. Use the outside hand push (in other words, countersteer the other way) when you are going for the exit of the turn.

What this did is completely eliminate the confusion about push/pull, left/right. As Parks says, it stopped the battle of the hands--not allowing one to go against the other and thereby confusing the front wheel (and the rider).

As I got more comfortable, then I was able to do more what Firefly suggested, and now I have a better coordination of the hands that he seems to be able to naturally. But initially, the focus suggested by Parks (and I mean "initially" like for about 10000 miles) was really helpful, and taught me a lot. I think the key to this evolution is just about learning to not wrestle with your front wheel--to be precise and light on the bars.

One more great piece of experience for me that I would suggest for you, Guy. Find a great rider--a really excellent rider--who will let you ride on the back of his/her bike through these corners. I had the good fortune of doing that with Lee Parks himself. (I traded him for a ski lesson.) I asked him to give me a ride on the back of my GS so I can get more of a feel for line, lean, apex, speeds in and out. It was very cool to actually feel what a fast turn felt like. Of course, I got busted for speeding out of a corner the very next day.
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:13 AM   #49
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vanishing point

One other thing about looking: I can't remember where it came from but I read it here about looking for the vanishing point in the corner. It's not something I always do, but it helps keep my eyes ahead.

Look to the point in the corner where the two sides of the road seem to meet and the road "vanishes". This happens even when there are no trees. If this point seems to be coming toward you, you have come in too hot. If it seems to stay more or less the same distance from you, you are more or less the right speed. If it moves away from you, it is time to give it more throttle.

Obviously, if you really know the corner, then this is less critical. But in new terrain, it has been an enormous safety device for me, while allowing me to not get too slow.
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:55 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Jinbaiquerre
OP here. Thanks to everyone who gave advice. I think it's also amazing that not one single person razzed me for not riding well. You're a great bunch of FF's.
Around here, you won't get razzed for not riding well, until you post a video of it.
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:55 AM   #51
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As usual you are getting some good advice and some crap advice...

IMHO I would suggest that check these guys out and take both their level 1 and level 2 course.

http://www.totalcontroltraining.net/

Here is the thread talking about it...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461192

I have no affiliation with these guys...

Edit: Opps see your are from Japan, I think you will have to find another local school, but I would strongly suggest that you get actual instruction not just rad about it in a book...
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:43 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jms969
As usual you are getting some good advice and some crap advice...

..


Haven't noticed any lousy advice in this topic.
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:03 AM   #53
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Eh? Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilNinjaDog


Haven't noticed any lousy advice in this topic.
How about:

"So my advice is to go slam a few beers and then go out and haul ass around those turns."
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:05 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRFade
How about:

"So my advice is to go slam a few beers and then go out and haul ass around those turns."
Apparently you didn't bother to read the rest of his post...
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:50 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3power
You have to read the book to fully understand the concept.
I don't need a book to understand the concept of countersteering. But the book might be helpful to understand why the author is giving this advice. I've tried the one-handed thing and see that it might be helpful to a n00b who is not getting countersteering, weight-shift/peg loading, and maintenance throttle/throttle steering. Perhaps that is what it is for. I dunno. I'll stick with the Ienatsch method.
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:39 PM   #56
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Read it

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilNinjaDog
Apparently you didn't bother to read the rest of his post...
Still bad advice. Acutally, if the post had just been the sentence I quoted, would have chuckled and moved on, but with the cute little backstory, harder to see the smile of the poster and, well..., just bad advice.

As for suggestions, for Total Control or any other controlled training environment that will let the OP extend his comfort zone with some new skills without worrying about that guard rail or oncoming car. Books are a great starting point but the immediate benefit of supervised training with REAL instructors, (not your buddy who thinks he can teach) cannot be overestimated. Spend a few dollars, euros or yen. You won't regret it.
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:47 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRFade
Books are a great starting point but the immediate benefit of supervised training with REAL instructors, (not your buddy who thinks he can teach) cannot be overestimated. Spend a few dollars, euros or yen. You won't regret it.
Unless your buddy happens to be Jimmy Lewis, Jeff Fredette, or Nick Ienatsch.
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:20 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Jinbaiquerre
I've been riding for about 7 years, and I still suck, suck, SUCK at taking tight turns at speed. Well, any turns, really, but especially tight ones in the twisties. Heading into a turn, I always imagine myself running wide into the guardrail or off the road if I am going "too fast". As a result, I go way, way slower than average riders, not just speed freaks. When I ride in a group, I'm always last through the twisties, by a long margin. Frankly, it's embarrassing and I'm tired of it. (On the plus side, my bike's never been down. )

People who have watched me say I stay too close to the inside of the turn, instead of starting at the outside edge and moving to the inside as I progress through the turn. There's also apparently a technique involving shifting my weight on the bike which I am not doing right, either. And finally, I'm not sure about what gear to be in on a ride through the twisties: Do you shift up on the straights and down before a turn, or just stay in a low gear the whole way?

I have read books, watched videos, and talked to other riders about this and I still suck. What can I do to get better?
SCHOOL

The best thing you can do to "get better" at riding your motorcycle is to attend a high performance riding school at a racetrack.

Ten years ago, I attended my first. It was Jason Pridmore's STAR School. It was an eye opening experience. I was a much better rider at the end of the day, although I'd been riding for 16 years.

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Old 08-23-2009, 07:34 AM   #59
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Wicked

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59
SCHOOL

The best thing you can do to "get better" at riding your motorcycle is to attend a high performance riding school at a racetrack.



better yet than that is to buy an actual dirt bike (not some poser monster road bike in dirt "drag queen" dress pretending tonbe a dirt bike but a 125cc motocross bike).

Take that bike out and RIDE it like a dirt bile and learn to slide it and push it to it's limits in q safe and sane enviornment and with proper gear. Then, start racing it.

You will learn more and faster there than you will even at a track school and it won't cost you nearly as much money. Riding on a track is good and you will learn a lot but the $/learn ratio will be much higher than attending the university of the trails.

But track schoolsstill are fun and worthwhile. I just wouldn't call them "the best."
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:26 AM   #60
Fajita Dave
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I found the riding style pretty different going from my dirtbike to sportbike. There is no doubt in my mind it helped me a lot though. I haven't been to a track day yet (I will as soon as my bank account can handle it) but I'm already riding on the street faster then a lot of guys that have track day experience thanks to my off-road backround. Still you will befit a lot from a racing school because there are some different muscles and techniquies that you use on the street and never would use on the dirt.

It might be hard to find a place to ride a dirtbike around Tokyo.
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