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Old 08-28-2009, 11:10 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by ikonoklass
If his goal is to ride a street bike well, are you really suggesting that riding a dirt bike for a hundred hours is going to help his street riding more than riding a street bike for a hundred hours?
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Old 08-29-2009, 05:08 AM   #77
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I'll tell you one thing riding a dirt bike will cure quickly is target fixation. You learn to look where you want to go, and learn to change direction in a heartbeat. It is another tool that will save your ass on the street when you need an escape route. I have no fear of taking the sidewalk or a lawn if I need to get out of trouble.
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Old 08-29-2009, 07:52 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by ikonoklass
Riddle me this: If he decides to get some dirt experience under his belt to improve his street riding, who teaches him how to ride a dirt bike well?

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Old 08-29-2009, 01:16 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ
Here's a nice one in the dirt for the street rider.

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Old 08-29-2009, 06:18 PM   #80
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Blast. Exactly what I was looking for.
Wish they had that here...

Originally Posted by Gramps
Here's a nice one in the dirt for the street rider.

Corner Spin
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Old 08-30-2009, 12:25 AM   #81
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A track school is really the single best thing you can do. The basic safety courses usually have you doing countersteering drills at 25 mph in a parking lot. With a track school you have instructors following you around at speed and giving you instruction every few laps. The fact that all the corners are the same is helpful as you can concentrate on your technique and not about what the next corner is like.

I think i was pretty good at corners before i took the STAR course from Jason Pridmore, but now its like OH MY GOD!!! (This is probably just my overinflated view of myself)
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:32 PM   #82
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I have not read this whole thread and others may have already mentioned this, but I highly recommend Lee Park's Total Control Clinic. I have been riding again for about a year (about 7k miles in that time) after a 25 year layoff. I am from the land of the flat and straight (Chicago). Earlier this year I went down to the BMW ralley in TN and scared myself around quite a few curves. It seemed every curve was a negotiation with the bike.

Last weekend I took the Lee Park's course, and then the next day left for a week ride down to the Smokies. What a difference! Now, admittedly, I was smarter (read, more conservative) about entry speeds while I practiced the new techniques, and that certainly helped too, but with my body in the right position, and my eyes focused in the right place, I found the bike just floated around the curves. No matter how sharp the curve, the bike always seemed ready to go even tighter if I needed it. In fact, I tended to go too sharp for awhile until I got used to it. No puckers the whole trip! Even riding 441 across the mountains in the rain was a relaxed ride.

I am not saying I am now good around curves. I still take them at a relaxed pace. But I am now comfortable, which is a start.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:03 AM   #83
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cornering speed and the The Pace

coming late to the conversation, but...

First of all, read "The Pace" by Nick Ienatsch. Best article ever written on safe street riding in my view. (I've not read a lot of motorcycle writing lately so if others have better recommendations I'd love to hear them.)

My recommendation for learning to corner faster (and safer)

Read "The Pace" then find a nice long clean twistie road.

Practice, practice practice.

Here's Nick:

"The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking."

This article has probably saved a lot of lives and really helped my riding. (That and Reg/Jason Pridmore's CLASS.)

And as Nick Ienatsch says: " If you've got some thing to prove, get on a racetrack."
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scotteee screwed with this post 09-02-2009 at 07:19 PM
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:40 PM   #84
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As has been said, take race course or at least attend a track day.

If it's a sportbike then:
Read Twist of the Wrist II
Read Sportriding Techniques
Figure out the differences, make them make sense in your head.

Go back do another track day.

If you have experienced riders that ride well, perhaps someone can mentor you a bit.

Just my $0.02
We must not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we began and to know the place for the first time. - TS Eliot

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Old 09-06-2009, 10:57 PM   #85
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Consciously shift weight onto the inside butt bone. This made a real difference for me.

Don't try to keep up with somebody outside your comfort-zone.

Stop thinking of yourself as somebody who sucks at turning and instead think of yourself as a skilled twisty guy.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:24 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by jeckyll
As has been said, take race course or at least attend a track day.

If it's a sportbike then:
Read Twist of the Wrist II
Read Sportriding Techniques
Figure out the differences, make them make sense in your head.

Go back do another track day.

If you have experienced riders that ride well, perhaps someone can mentor you a bit.

Just my $0.02
I have the books you mention, as well as Lee Park's Total Control. I feel that Total Control is the best, by far, but I have gotten useful info from all.

Having talked to people who have done Total Control ARCs, track days, and even big name track schools, most said that they got more out of the Total Control clinics, and all said that those clinics helped them to do better during the track days and track schools.

I do want to do a track school at some point, but the Total Control book and clinics put me where I am very comfrotable on the street, and able to hang with sport bike riders while riding a Goldwing in the tight twisties.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:47 AM   #87
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:43 PM   #88
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My method was simple and cheap $140 in walmart saftey cones and a empty parking lot on the weekend

My son and I video taped each other going through the cones and worked on all of the different styles of corners It was amazing when you have run off room and the cost of making a mistake is next to nothing how fast you can learn through trial and error

This is a short video of some of our learning experiences
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:34 PM   #89
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It's been a few years, so time for an update!

I'm still not going to be mistaken for a pro racer any time soon, but I got better. I'm not always the last guy through the twisties; in a decent-sized group, I'm usually in the middle of the pack. And some people have even accused me of riding too fast and aggressively! (No, I'm not doing anything stupid out there. At least not IMHO.)

What helped?

(1) Taking a skills course at a local motorcycle school. Repeatedly. (I took their full-day course about 10 times in a year.) Endless runs through slaloms and gymkhana-style twisty courses, with instructors offering advice along the way.

(2) REALIZING THAT I DO NOT HAVE TO BE IN A HIGH GEAR BETWEEN TURNS. This was even more important than the skills course for me. I used to try to shift up between turns and down for turns. Now I'm much more likely to keep the bike in 2nd or possibly 3rd the whole time on a twisty road, while letting the engine rev a lot higher between turns. It is SO much easier to ride when you are not worried about being in the right gear. And now I always have the ability to maintain speed through the turn and accelerate out of the turn.

(3) Practice, practice, practice. I ride a lot more than I used to, so I get a lot more chances to work on my skills. And I try to stay on the tail of the really fast guys (as much as I can without getting in over my head) and follow their lines.

(4) Looking through the turn. I still have trouble with this, but I try to do it as much as possible and always try to push myself to look farther through the turn than I used to.

(5) Getting a bike that likes to turn! My old Honda X4 is not really a nimble bike. The front is raked out too far and it's kind of a pig. Good for highway blasts, but not made for the twisties. My R1200GS ADV has absolutely allowed me to become a better rider.

Anyway, there you have it: 5 things that made a difference for me. I could still get a lot better at riding, but I'm at a point now where a twisty road is enjoyable, not frustrating.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:07 PM   #90
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One thing I've found really useful is hand placement on the bars.
Try and hold the bars as if you are holding a screw driver, notice the hand placement in the pic, the hands aren't flush with the bars but angled.
It gives you a lot more input and will stop you from gripping the bars to hard.....relax grass hopper.

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