ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > Parallel Universe
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-31-2009, 11:22 AM   #151
sieg
Beastly Adventurer
 
sieg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Southern Illinois USA
Oddometer: 2,163
Here's a trick I've used for years on off road and dual sport bikes with good results. Drill and tap the hub for a grease zirk. If the hub has outer grease seals put them in backwards, (they now will keep dirt/water out instead of grease in) then install unsealed bearings. If there are no seals, but sealed bearings then remove the inner seal on the bearing. Now put the wheel on the bike and pump the hub full of grease while rotating the wheel to insure the hub is full of grease, but not pressurized. Some may come out of the seals and make a mess, ride the bike or spin the wheel till it is warmed up and all excess grease should be pushed through the seals by now. Don't over grease it! One shot each time I replace a tire is what I do. The trick is not greasing the bearing as it needs very little grease but the fact that now the hub and bearings are full of grease and there is no void for dirt/water to get in and that is what ruins the bearing.(think of bearing buddies on a boat trailer) After the initial warn up there is no grease mess coming out it you don't regrease it, and you used high quality grease.
sieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 12:53 PM   #152
Bucko
In a parallel world
 
Bucko's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: South Coast, CA
Oddometer: 807
Thumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodtimes
Unless there is something special about the bearings used by BMW (and considering the loads and speeds involved, there probably isn't...), a 6204 is a 6204 is a 6204.

A SKF sealed 6204 is the same (dimensionally) as a NTN 6204, and a FAG 6204, and a Consolidated 6204, and a . . .

Stop by your local bearing house (Applied Industrial, Kaman, or one of the regional/local shops and tell them you need a sealed 6204 (or other size).
Thanks, I understand a little more about bearings and sizes now.

I did what you said and my local industrial supply house is setting me up. This little change should give me as much piece of mind as swapping out the doohickey on my KLR.
Bucko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 01:01 PM   #153
bxr140
Flame Bait
 
bxr140's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: On high
Oddometer: 1,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by upweekis
I sure hope you guys are having these bearings replaced under warranty. That's about the only way to get a company's attention.
+1. Replacing the bearings--while potentially providing some extra margin over the stock bearings (but mostly just providing peace of mind)--is, IMHO, counterproductive to BMW coming up with a proper resolution, not to mention counterproductive to determining the root cause of the problem. The supposition that the bearing quality is suspect is just that...and even if the rating of the OEM bearing is lower than that of an aftermarket one, there's still no guarantee the aftermarket bearing won't fail. It really depends on how much (if at all) some designer at BMW underestimated the loading on the left side bearing. Its quite plausible that *no* 6204 can handle the loads. Furthermore, unless you get specific authorization from The Man, a non OEM bearing may very well give you warranty grief should you have a future catastrophic failure that destroys the wheel. Stupider stances have been taken.

FWIW, my bearing failure was not catastrophic. I rode on it for a good 1000 miles (made a clicking/clunking sound off throttle at low speeds) before taking it into the dealer. Didn't get any better or worse once I noticed it. YMMV, of course.

Those who have not yet removed your wheels, if you have the time, please do so and report the condition of your bearings. Specifically, the rotor side bearing.
bxr140 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 01:35 PM   #154
tmex OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
tmex's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: NorCal
Oddometer: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
+1. Replacing the bearings--while potentially providing some extra margin over the stock bearings (but mostly just providing peace of mind)--is, IMHO, counterproductive to BMW coming up with a proper resolution, not to mention counterproductive to determining the root cause of the problem. The supposition that the bearing quality is suspect is just that...and even if the rating of the OEM bearing is lower than that of an aftermarket one, there's still no guarantee the aftermarket bearing won't fail. It really depends on how much (if at all) some designer at BMW underestimated the loading on the left side bearing. Its quite plausible that *no* 6204 can handle the loads. Furthermore, unless you get specific authorization from The Man, a non OEM bearing may very well give you warranty grief should you have a future catastrophic failure that destroys the wheel. Stupider stances have been taken.

FWIW, my bearing failure was not catastrophic. I rode on it for a good 1000 miles (made a clicking/clunking sound off throttle at low speeds) before taking it into the dealer. Didn't get any better or worse once I noticed it. YMMV, of course.

Those who have not yet removed your wheels, if you have the time, please do so and report the condition of your bearings. Specifically, the rotor side bearing.
I agree with you conceptually, but many of our bikes are not anywhere near a dealer. My bike is more than 150 miles from a dealer and your suggestion would involve an overnight stay to replace a $15 part. The logistics just do not work out for many of us. Plus that, I want to maximize reliability in the field. It took me two days to get my bike back to my garage - I was not having any fun doing it either. As a practical matter there is no other solution I can imagine other than an upgraded bearing in any case. BMW is certainly not going to redesign the hub.
__________________
my favorite bike - R1200GS
tmex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 01:42 PM   #155
Cumminsman76
befuddled
 
Cumminsman76's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Where the bikes parked. STL
Oddometer: 8,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL COACHMAN

I have a new 2010 F8 with only 500 miles on it and already thinking about a bearing swap............ I think I need my head examined!
I think you have first hand experience that would make me change bearing if I was in your riding boots.
__________________
STURGIS ride report.
2009 R1200 Gelände/Straße Abenteuer
A GS is like chlamydia, it grows on you whether you want it to or not. WhiteManFlail

Save $5 on Smugmug "1alkVgTNLEuyQ"
Cumminsman76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 03:40 PM   #156
bxr140
Flame Bait
 
bxr140's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: On high
Oddometer: 1,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
As a practical matter there is no other solution I can imagine other than an upgraded bearing in any case.
Don't get me wrong--I see what you're saying. And peace of mind goes a long way when it comes to reliability.

But...your 'only' solution assumes that both A) the quality of the bearing is directly related to the failure of the bearing, B) the quality of a bearing that you source is higher than that of the OEM bearing, and C) a "better" bearing will not fail in the same way as a lesser one.

Unfortunately, thus far, no concrete evidence exists to support any of those assumtions. They belong on the fishbone, for sure, but they're not the only bones.

If you search the parts fiches, that exact bearing part number is used on a *huge* list of BMW motorcycles dating back for years (141 bikes, according to bike bandit), including late model LTs and 1150GSes...bikes that certainly see their fair share of miles and abuse. Not that I keep up on all failures on all BMW models, but to my knowledge there's no systemic problem with wheel bearings. Only the rear bearings on F800GSes have shown an issue. And specifically the two outer bearings. Someone earlier said their sprocket carrier bearing was 'gritty'. When I pulled off my wheel last week, my findings were similar: the sprocket bearing was not loose, but was 'gritty'. The hub bearing on the sprocket side was spot on and, as noted already, the rotor side bearing was very loose.

While I'm not about to rule anything out just yet (it could certainly be as cut and dry as a bad run of bearings), I'm of the opinion that the cause (and therefore the solution) is more likely to be dimensional. We all know that some front axles are dimensionally incorrect--who's to say the the wheel spacers (any of them) don't exhibit a similar condition? Pressing in a $100 ceramic bearing won't do squat when it comes to surviving your adventures through BFE if you're treating your wheel bearing like a thrust bearing.

What about a manufacturing error pressing the bearings into their seats? Insufficient (or excessive) depth...or what about a missed radius in the hub/carrier design, etc?

There's more to this story, methinks.
bxr140 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 03:51 PM   #157
bxr140
Flame Bait
 
bxr140's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: On high
Oddometer: 1,032
Since web searches are fun.

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit7548
bxr140 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 03:55 PM   #158
Boon Booni
Red Clay Halo
 
Boon Booni's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Oddometer: 12,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
Don't know enough about ceramic bearings, but my first reaction is that they'd be rather brittle for use on a motorcycle.
__________________
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.

You can be Han Solo, and I can be another Han Solo...
Boon Booni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 03:58 PM   #159
Cumminsman76
befuddled
 
Cumminsman76's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Where the bikes parked. STL
Oddometer: 8,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140

If you search the parts fiches, that exact bearing part number is used on a *huge* list of BMW motorcycles dating back for years (141 bikes, according to bike bandit), including late model LTs and 1150GSes...bikes that certainly see their fair share of miles and abuse.
That's probably because it's the same size bearing. If its a cheap bearing that is becuase they can save $.10 a bearing by going with that supplier.
__________________
STURGIS ride report.
2009 R1200 Gelände/Straße Abenteuer
A GS is like chlamydia, it grows on you whether you want it to or not. WhiteManFlail

Save $5 on Smugmug "1alkVgTNLEuyQ"
Cumminsman76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 04:02 PM   #160
Motoriley
Even my posing is virtual
 
Motoriley's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Deepest darkest burbs of Montreal
Oddometer: 2,646
6204 silicon Carbide bearing only 169$ each

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit7719




__________________
04 Toyota Sienna, new wipers for 2011!!
Electricity (120 AC), Indoor Plumbing, new kitchen tap for 2010!!!
Color tube TV, Microwave Oven (yes she rotates!),Washer & Dryer,Paved Driveway,
Website - http://www.apormc.com/
Vids - http://www.youtube.com/user/Motoriley?feature=mhum
Motoriley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 04:18 PM   #161
tmex OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
tmex's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: NorCal
Oddometer: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
Unfortunately, thus far, no concrete evidence exists to support any of those assumtions.
True, but that has never stopped me before. What I am quite certain of is that BMW will not come to my rescue any time soon. In the meantime I have to do what I can do - assuming I can even get a replacement hub in the next 4-6 weeks maybe.
__________________
my favorite bike - R1200GS

tmex screwed with this post 08-31-2009 at 04:36 PM
tmex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 05:31 PM   #162
Law Dawg (ret)
Studly Adventurer
 
Law Dawg (ret)'s Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Left Coast
Oddometer: 819
If memory serves T, you took your wheel to the dealer (two of them wasn't it?) and were told not a warranty item. Is that right? If so the dealer(s) have been put on notice...wonder if the mothership has?

Will someone do some checks on the upgrade bearings please?
__________________
Firefly; the way it will actually be...rednecks in space, dealing with the mess made by urban progressives while being hounded by them and all without any goofy alien stuff. Shiney!
Law Dawg (ret) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 05:32 PM   #163
bxr140
Flame Bait
 
bxr140's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: On high
Oddometer: 1,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cumminsman76
That's probably because it's the same size bearing.
Not probably, it is the same size bearing. But the point is that if you ordered one for a 2002 1150GS (or whatever bike is on that list), you'd get the same exact part as if you ordered one for a 2009 F800GS. The guy at the warehouse would literally go to the same bin on the same shelf.

But even that doesn't necessarily mean that the part on your F800GS now is the same part (or is even from the same vendor) that you'd get if you ordered a F800GS bearing from your dealer tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cumminsman76
If its a cheap bearing that is becuase they can save $.10 a bearing by going with that supplier.
Operative word being "if". And who's to say the less expensive part is a lower performing part? And...who's to say they even go with the lowest bidder? Its not like the guys in procurement never did a few favors for their favorite vendors...
bxr140 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 05:50 PM   #164
ROYAL COACHMAN
Studly Adventurer
 
ROYAL COACHMAN's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Defiance, Mo.
Oddometer: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
True, but that has never stopped me before. What I am quite certain of is that BMW will not come to my rescue any time soon. In the meantime I have to do what I can do - assuming I can even get a replacement hub in the next 4-6 weeks maybe.
For those of us who need new wheel hubs, why can't BMW simply pull from the assembly line to take care their paying customers who have a legitimate warranty claim

By the way Dennis I agree that one should probably replace their bearings with after market replacements just for the sake of expediency

Glen
__________________
2009 KLR 685
Husky TR650 Terra
ROYAL COACHMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 05:51 PM   #165
Cumminsman76
befuddled
 
Cumminsman76's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Where the bikes parked. STL
Oddometer: 8,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
Not probably, it is the same size bearing. But the point is that if you ordered one for a 2002 1150GS (or whatever bike is on that list), you'd get the same exact part as if you ordered one for a 2009 F800GS. The guy at the warehouse would literally go to the same bin on the same shelf.

But even that doesn't necessarily mean that the part on your F800GS now is the same part (or is even from the same vendor) that you'd get if you ordered a F800GS bearing from your dealer tomorrow.



Operative word being "if". And who's to say the less expensive part is a lower performing part? And...who's to say they even go with the lowest bidder? Its not like the guys in procurement never did a few favors for their favorite vendors...
As far as the first part, I've seen different part numbers that bring up the same part.

For the last part doing favors doesnt allow you to go to the reveiw board with the "I saved the company $X this year. I worked in the R+D department after they went to China for metal parts. Boy the money that saved.
__________________
STURGIS ride report.
2009 R1200 Gelände/Straße Abenteuer
A GS is like chlamydia, it grows on you whether you want it to or not. WhiteManFlail

Save $5 on Smugmug "1alkVgTNLEuyQ"
Cumminsman76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014