ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > Parallel Universe
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-31-2009, 07:45 PM   #166
v8toilet
Nothing to see here.
 
v8toilet's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Northwest U.S.
Oddometer: 1,712
F800 8,000 miles brake side rear bearing fits the crunchy description floated by others. The wheel felt OK on the axle, not great but I could not tell the bearing was going. Sprocket side bearings felt OK, not as good as I expected though.

Only takes 5 minutes to check.
v8toilet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 07:57 PM   #167
tmex OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
tmex's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: NorCal
Oddometer: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL COACHMAN
For those of us who need new wheel hubs, why can't BMW simply pull from the assembly line to take care their paying customers who have a legitimate warranty claim

By the way Dennis I agree that one should probably replace their bearings with after market replacements just for the sake of expediency

Glen
Cost is the driver here. They don't want to have complete bikes exept for a rear wheel sitting around in their finished goods inventory.
__________________
my favorite bike - R1200GS
tmex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 08:04 PM   #168
huckleberry
BACK ROAD BOMBER
 
huckleberry's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: N.E. Pa.
Oddometer: 1,106
I was thinking about this today and would like to hear some of your thoughts----i was wondering if perhaps its not a bearing problem persay but perhaps an incorect torque problem----they have undertorqued many parts on this bike and if the axle was undertorqued perhaps this would allow the bearing to work around inside the hub,work some material loose to get inside the bearing and cause a failure? A lot of guessing but when i put my finger in the bearing to spin it as soon as i touched the inside spacer it moved and i can't remember the last time 1 of those moved that easily!thoughts?
__________________
“An adventure is misery and discomfort, relived in the safety of reminiscence.” Marco Polo
09 F 650 GS twin
XR 400
Beta Techno
huckleberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 08:11 PM   #169
tmex OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
tmex's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: NorCal
Oddometer: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by huckleberry
I was thinking about this today and would like to hear some of your thoughts----i was wondering if perhaps its not a bearing problem persay but perhaps an incorect torque problem----they have undertorqued many parts on this bike and if the axle was undertorqued perhaps this would allow the bearing to work around inside the hub,work some material loose to get inside the bearing and cause a failure? A lot of guessing but when i put my finger in the bearing to spin it as soon as i touched the inside spacer it moved and i can't remember the last time 1 of those moved that easily!thoughts?
The axle nut torque on the F8 is in the ballpark with other bikes I own. Are you saying that the spacer moves with the wheel on the bike and torqued correctly or are you describing movement of the inner bearing race with the axle removed?
__________________
my favorite bike - R1200GS
tmex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 08:12 PM   #170
I GS 1
I 90S I
 
I GS 1's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: SI, New Zealand
Oddometer: 622
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
Don't get me wrong--I see what you're saying. And peace of mind goes a long way when it comes to reliability.

But...your 'only' solution assumes that both A) the quality of the bearing is directly related to the failure of the bearing, B) the quality of a bearing that you source is higher than that of the OEM bearing, and C) a "better" bearing will not fail in the same way as a lesser one.

Unfortunately, thus far, no concrete evidence exists to support any of those assumtions. They belong on the fishbone, for sure, but they're not the only bones.
It would appear that there is some consensus to the opinion that replacing the bearings with high quality ones is the way to go. My question would be - what sort of trouble free miles are those that have done this getting? There must be some that have done way more than 6k or multiples of that by now.
I GS 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 08:12 PM   #171
cisco
old fat guy
 
cisco's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: The city of seven wounders
Oddometer: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
Cost is the driver here. They don't want to have complete bikes exept for a rear wheel sitting around in their finished goods inventory.
You need to push at all levels, dealer, district rep, and BMWNA. The phone numbers are in your owner manual. The squeaky wheel.........
Is a repair on the hub available in your neck of the woods.
cisco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 08:20 PM   #172
huckleberry
BACK ROAD BOMBER
 
huckleberry's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: N.E. Pa.
Oddometer: 1,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
The axle nut torque on the F8 is in the ballpark with other bikes I own. Are you saying that the spacer moves with the wheel on the bike and torqued correctly or are you describing movement of the inner bearing race with the axle removed?
I thought if perhaps the torque was on the light side or if the spacer was on the short side the bearing on the rotor side by itself might work around inside the hub which i think would allow it to self distruct?
__________________
“An adventure is misery and discomfort, relived in the safety of reminiscence.” Marco Polo
09 F 650 GS twin
XR 400
Beta Techno
huckleberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 10:07 PM   #173
Bayner
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Penticton, BC
Oddometer: 1,463
OK guys. I hacked apart my bearing to have a look. One single spot on the inner race had galled quite badly. This section is off to one side of center (marginally) and is 1 cm in length. This is what caught my attention when I cleaned the grease out of it to inspect it closer and no doubt what I felt when I spun it. Then I cut through the outer race to disassemble & get a better look. The entire inner surface of the outer race is starting to gall as well. Very slight at this point, but once it starts, you're hooped. What I find especially interesting is the wear pattern is not centered, but like the galling on the inner race, it is favouring one side, as though the bearing is not running centered.
Now stay with me here, this is my supposition. If the bearings were installed in the hub an unequal distance compared to the length of the spacer you would force the balls to run up on one side of the race rather than centered. Because the race is cupped away from centerline, the preload on the balls becomes greater the further they are forced up the taper or cup. So you have a bearing that although no load is being placed on it, is running under stress already. Add to that a small amount of lube (again, only my opinion) and you have a bearing that is going fail prematurely. What do you guys think?

Here's a link to some pics:
http://www.dualsportbc.com/photogall...sort=1&cat=817
Bayner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 10:07 PM   #174
EnderTheX
Drunken Squirrel
 
EnderTheX's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: DFW Area, TX
Oddometer: 2,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by huckleberry
I thought if perhaps the torque was on the light side or if the spacer was on the short side the bearing on the rotor side by itself might work around inside the hub which i think would allow it to self distruct?

On that note... has anyone noticed scoring or "wallowing out" of the bearing race when they had a bearing failure?

In my experience with small high performance bearings in high load situations: if they do not fit *perfectly* they easily wallow out their home at an exponential pace.
EnderTheX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 10:29 PM   #175
EnderTheX
Drunken Squirrel
 
EnderTheX's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: DFW Area, TX
Oddometer: 2,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayner
OK guys. I hacked apart my bearing to have a look. One single spot on the inner race had galled quite badly. This section is off to one side of center (marginally) and is 1 cm in length. This is what caught my attention when I cleaned the grease out of it to inspect it closer and no doubt what I felt when I spun it. Then I cut through the outer race to disassemble & get a better look. The entire inner surface of the outer race is starting to gall as well. Very slight at this point, but once it starts, you're hooped. What I find especially interesting is the wear pattern is not centered, but like the galling on the inner race, it is favouring one side, as though the bearing is not running centered.
Now stay with me here, this is my supposition. If the bearings were installed in the hub an unequal distance compared to the length of the spacer you would force the balls to run up on one side of the race rather than centered. Because the race is cupped away from centerline, the preload on the balls becomes greater the further they are forced up the taper or cup. So you have a bearing that although no load is being placed on it, is running under stress already. Add to that a small amount of lube (again, only my opinion) and you have a bearing that is going fail prematurely. What do you guys think?

Here's a link to some pics:
http://www.dualsportbc.com/photogall...sort=1&cat=817
I saw your post as soon as I posted my other one, after thinking about what you said I would rather put your conclusion in a shorter statement. You surmise that *Spacing issues may cause lateral loads on bearings that are designed to only handle radial loads*

While all radial ball bearings are able to handle light intermittent lateral loads they would not be able to handle sustained loads. Motorcycles are designed to function on radial loads on the wheels (unless you are hitting alot of rocks sideways or skidding sideways).

The spacers are designed to compress and torque against the *inner* race of the bearing while the outer race rides comfortably in the wheel. This being said the spacers *inside* the hub may be too short thereby allowing a huge lateral load applied to the bearings when the rear axle nut is torqued.

I am working on a mental picture here without looking at the bike, someone draw me something if I am wrong!

Question: Do you know which side of which bearing race was galled???
EnderTheX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 11:05 PM   #176
Maddaddy
Greg
 
Maddaddy's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Olympia, WA
Oddometer: 1,692
Cry hmmrph

well i tried to resist the internet hype, but, i just checked my bearing on my rear wheel. the left side defiantly feels pitted. Gonna call SSBMW tomorrow and get their feedback.
__________________
PSSOR - Dualsport Training & Adventure Camps.
Off-Road Destructor Extraordinaire
Maddaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 02:49 AM   #177
tmex OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
tmex's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: NorCal
Oddometer: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderTheX
I saw your post as soon as I posted my other one, after thinking about what you said I would rather put your conclusion in a shorter statement. You surmise that *Spacing issues may cause lateral loads on bearings that are designed to only handle radial loads*

While all radial ball bearings are able to handle light intermittent lateral loads they would not be able to handle sustained loads. Motorcycles are designed to function on radial loads on the wheels (unless you are hitting alot of rocks sideways or skidding sideways).

The spacers are designed to compress and torque against the *inner* race of the bearing while the outer race rides comfortably in the wheel. This being said the spacers *inside* the hub may be too short thereby allowing a huge lateral load applied to the bearings when the rear axle nut is torqued.

I am working on a mental picture here without looking at the bike, someone draw me something if I am wrong!

Question: Do you know which side of which bearing race was galled???
You guys may be on to something here. The rotor side of the hub has a snap ring the sprocket side of the hub does not. The snap ring would prevent any movement of the bearing outer race in the direction of the snap ring. Perhaps this is allowing lateral force to be applied to the rotor side bearing when the axle is torqued to spec. I don't see how the lateral loading of the rotor side bearing can be predicted or controlled. The result would be galling of the rotor side bearing on the races which are facing the inside of the wheel. Bayner, do you recall if the galling was on the race was in the direction of the center of the wheel (away from the rotor)?
__________________
my favorite bike - R1200GS

tmex screwed with this post 09-01-2009 at 02:55 AM
tmex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 02:53 AM   #178
tmex OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
tmex's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: NorCal
Oddometer: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Law Dawg
If memory serves T, you took your wheel to the dealer (two of them wasn't it?) and were told not a warranty item. Is that right? If so the dealer(s) have been put on notice...wonder if the mothership has?

Will someone do some checks on the upgrade bearings please?
Dawg, the dealer did not exactly deny the warranty claim, but stated that the policy is that the owner of the bike pays for the service until BMW decides if it is a warrnty claim, and then the owner is reimbursed. Seems kinda weird to me. Actually there was no talk of even filing a warranty claim until SJBMW saw the hub. I was going to get stuck for $90 for the three bearings and seals plus $90 of labor to replace them (which I have paid), but do not have a rear wheel I can use. Nor are two of the bearings installed since the dealer concluded the hub was toast.
__________________
my favorite bike - R1200GS
tmex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 09:10 AM   #179
duckrider
Studly Adventurer
 
duckrider's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Southwest Orygun
Oddometer: 993
Measure the distance between the bearing pockets in the hub and compare that with the length of the spacer. That might reveal the problem.
duckrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 09:19 AM   #180
itsatdm
Beastly Adventurer
 
itsatdm's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Nor Ca.
Oddometer: 4,613
The spacer has a flange on the rotor side of the wheel that appears to rest against the bearing. I can't tell from the manual which way the bearing faces but I assume the cup part is placed against the hub. Too long of a spacer looks like it would force the inner bearing out of the cup and against the ring retainer which could cause premature wear. Just saying.
The dealer initiates the warranty claim. On my six claims, no paper work initiated other than a work order. Typically, after saying they have never heard of that before, they check BMW central to see if there has been like claims. If they find some, no problem, if not somebody has to be first. Go to the next level if you feel like you are getting run around

itsatdm screwed with this post 09-01-2009 at 09:25 AM
itsatdm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014