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Old 09-06-2009, 08:13 PM   #256
Lion BR
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Indeed it seems you guys are on to something. And it appears as it was not corrected for the 2010 model years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco
I would think so. Both of the bearings had lube. Not very much imo. There is also a "stain" on the outside of the bad bearing. The discoloration wont scrape off. I'm assuming this is from heat.The scenarios; are the spacer too long,no, the spacer too short, maybe, mine was not, misalignment of the axle,I think both sides of the hub would show systems, and I always use a caliper to measure one side to the other, The disc side having twice the crush as the drive side......now we're on to something.
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:17 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco
misalignment of the axle,I think both sides of the hub would show systems
Cisco
Even though misalignment would put forces on both bearings keep in mind that the bearing on the rotor side is taking a lot more forces through normal operation. The failure of the rotor side would be exacerbated by these extra loads and therefore we would see failure there first.
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:57 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco
I removed my wheel today, sure enough the bearings are notchy( is that a word?). As I turn one the other turns, via the spacer. They both feel rough. I pull the drive side bearing and it feels like new, as it almost is. The disc side is the culprit. I remove any excess material that the snap ring might leave, warm the hub and remove the bearing. It goes very hard. I roll the bearing in my fingers, MUCH SMOOTHER. Now I'm wondering if the bore is just to tight. I can't measure the bore past the snap ring grove with my dial calipers, that's all I have at home. Off to the shop(work) to get an inside mic. Now where was I? The drive side had about one to one and a half thou. crush, what one would expect. The disc side almost three thou crush, too much IMO. So........I'm thinkn' that the bore is just too tight. This could be why we are seeing failures on the disc side. Any thoughts?
Cisco
Wow if your measurements are accurate the hub machining is the real issue! Bearings for this application should only have a 0.0005" min to 0.001" max interference fit for proper life. The fit of the ball bearing in the hub is vital to maximizing bearing life. The bearing integrity will be compromised by reduction of radial play in the assembly. The perfect fit enables bearings to run at peak performance for maximized end-product life.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:48 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy Unlimited
Wow if your measurements are accurate the hub machining is the real issue! Bearings for this application should only have a 0.0005" min to 0.001" max interference fit for proper life. The fit of the ball bearing in the hub is vital to maximizing bearing life. The bearing integrity will be compromised by reduction of radial play in the assembly. The perfect fit enables bearings to run at peak performance for maximized end-product life.
I think Cisco's crush measurements provide the best theory going right now. The spacer length is probably a red herring (unless it is too short and the bearings simply cannot migrate to the spacer) since I believe once the axle is torqued down and the bike run for awhile that the bearings can and will make small adjustments in the axial direction to accomodate small variations in spacer length as well as small variations in how well the bearings are seated when they are installed.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:57 AM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
I believe once the axle is torqued down and the bike run for awhile that the bearings can and will make small adjustments in the axial direction to accomodate small variations in spacer length as well as small variations in how well the bearings are seated when they are installed.
Your right T, they do indeed. I rechecked after torqueing.
Now, again, my bearings were good. And installing the new ones, as I said earlier, they dropped in with very little effort to about halfway up the bearing. Which I have never seen before. Then the rest of the way needed to be pressed.
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Old 09-07-2009, 06:22 AM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Your right T, they do indeed. I rechecked after torqueing.
Now, again, my bearings were good. And installing the new ones, as I said earlier, they dropped in with very little effort to about halfway up the bearing. Which I have never seen before. Then the rest of the way needed to be pressed.
DP; did you notice any difference in the resistance between bearings when you removed them?
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:56 AM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco
DP; did you notice any difference in the resistance between bearings when you removed them?
Cisco
I'm holding all 5 in my hand right now. There is absolutley no difference between them. All feel like they should, smooth as silk and no marks anywhere.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:14 AM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
I'm holding all 5 in my hand right now. There is absolutley no difference between them. All feel like they should, smooth as silk and no marks anywhere.
I was talking about the way the came out/ went in. Did you notice any differance in the fit in the hub?
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:31 AM   #264
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SKF bearing damage chart

On the SKF web site under products-troubleshooting-bearing damage chart are pictures of bad bearing and what caused the damage. Perhaps this will help solve the problem.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:42 AM   #265
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Cisco,
Not realy, came out what felt normally. Went in, like I mentioned, going in, they sorta dropped in halfway up then needed to be pressed in the rest of the way. The force it took to press them in the reat of the way, felt normal, but thats not exactly a scientific assesment. But I never saw bearings drop in like that. Always a fight right from the get-go.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:57 AM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Cisco,
Not realy, came out what felt normally. Went in, like I mentioned, going in, they sorta dropped in halfway up then needed to be pressed in the rest of the way. The force it took to press them in the reat of the way, felt normal, but thats not exactly a scientific assesment. But I never saw bearings drop in like that. Always a fight right from the get-go.
The seal bore, before the snap ring, is larger then bearing bore on the disc side. On the drive side the bearing is tight from the get go.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:59 AM   #267
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Thats correct Cisco. I never saw tha before myself.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:01 PM   #268
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:25 PM   #269
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Did my own scientific test today. I checked my bearing about 2 weeks and they felt fine. Seems to me that if these bearing are under some stress they ought to be putting out some heat that can be measured.
Went for about a 50 mile ride and stopped. You ready for this? I applied my naked finger right top of the hub over the bearing on the caliper side and felt absolutely no heat . I'm good.

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Old 09-07-2009, 06:27 PM   #270
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Ugh.....

I'm still waiting on word from my dealer on the condition of my bearings (the only reason they are checking them is because my bike is in for a transmission problem (wont shift out of first)). If they come back saying they are smooth as a babies bottom I will check them myself when I get home to make sure I know what a babies bottom might feel like (I don't have kids and don't plan on having any or touching any).

Otherwise, hopefully I can get the bearings from them and have them replaced. I wonder if any of us can get specs on the hub and spacer dimensions with tolerances. Anyone got an inside line?.... If so, I may be able to find a laser CMM to get some dimensions off my parts.
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