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Old 08-28-2009, 07:50 AM   #106
tmex OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Well, I'm no blind BMW brand rider for sure but in their defense:
KTM uses the same rim (Beher)sp? as the 800 on the 950's. I know, I had one. Loved it btw.
My spokes are just as big and have not even needed adjustment yet. The weird thing on the spokes you see is the factory bend in them. Which is odd and questionable for sure. But so far, no problem with it for me anyway.
Bearings ? Its not unusual to use cheaper bearings and because the same bearing is going south on the bikes sings of something other than that. Otherwise all would go or they would go in a haphazard fashion, not the same location everytime. I think anyway. To be frank, I dont know am just guessing here. My opinion is worthless really. BTW, Just yesterday I re packed my stem bearing, it was greased with white moly and it was made in Japan not China
Just something to keep in mind is all.
I have had no issue with the rims or spokes either. Just want to upgrade because I can and I am rich. Then my bike will be better than yours, and the correct world order will be restored.

Your comment on the bearings is insightful. I had the same question. The rotor side rear seems to be the weak link here. Perhaps the bearing type and size is not up to the stress, and any bearing will fail prematurely at that location. I guess we will have to wait and see on that one.

How do you know the grease in your steering bearing is white moly? I could not tell white moly from fresh bird shit. I have white lithium grease that I use, but it does not contain any moly.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:04 AM   #107
DockingPilot
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T,
I dont. An "ass umption" on my part. Because it was white ? But is was well greased anyway.

Now your gonna make me spend some $$ to one up you T. !

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
I have had no issue with the rims or spokes either. Just want to upgrade because I can and I am rich. Then my bike will be better than yours, and the correct world order will be restored.

Your comment on the bearings is insightful. I had the same question. The rotor side rear seems to be the weak link here. Perhaps the bearing type and size is not up to the stress, and any bearing will fail prematurely at that location. I guess we will have to wait and see on that one.

How do you know the grease in your steering bearing is white moly? I could not tell white moly from fresh bird shit. I have white lithium grease that I use, but it does not contain any moly.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:07 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Bearings ? Its not unusual to use cheaper bearings and because the same bearing is going south on the bikes sings of something other than that. Otherwise all would go or they would go in a haphazard fashion, not the same location everytime. I think anyway. To be frank, I dont know am just guessing here. My opinion is worthless really.
Interesting. What would make this location more prone to premature bearings failure?
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:17 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
I have had no issue with the rims or spokes either. Just want to upgrade because I can and I am rich. Then my bike will be better than yours, and the correct world order will be restored.
This might have to be my new signature though none of it applies to me.....

Waiting for some engineering type brain to chime in on why the same bearing so far. Now I need to go pull rear wheel and check the bearing...
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:23 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR
Interesting. What would make this location more prone to premature bearings failure?
Thats way over my noggin.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:01 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS
fwiw, I've already ordered replacement bearings and will install them when I get 'em. I'll do the rims and spokes when needed. This is my only bike and I want to ride it as long as I can before I take time off.
For the first time ever I have two bikes (the F8GS and a DR 650) but know the feeling of separation anxiety. My R1150 GS was a sole means of transportation and it stank on ice when the shop had to keep it for any time at all. A back up bike (at least) is the only way to go.

My question about the bearings is that if one side has a failure history, will a better grade of bearing overcome this? There just may be an issue of overall design (perhaps friction caused heat) that will wear any bearing. In addition to my earlier request for a good bearing tutorial, some inspection of the upgrade on the affected side would be appreciated and prudent.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:04 AM   #112
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My 08 f650 had a front wheel bearing failure at only 30miles in. It seems that somebody at the factory had a hangover day and forgot to install the spacer between the bearings so they just walked apart. Let me tell you it made for an intresting ride.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:20 AM   #113
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I took my wheels off yesterday to put new tires on in preparation for a ride on the Pony Express trail in 2 weeks. 2 of the 3 rear bearing felt gritty. I went to a local bearing shop (Applied Industrial Technology in San Jose. 650-968-8316) and ordered the bearings and seals (front also, while I'm at it). I also ordered a "blind bearing removal tool" as I can't see any way to remove them without it. The tool was $142, the bearings were $13.73 each for SKF and the seals were $5 or $6 buck. I should have everything on Tuesday. They had the bearings in stock but not the seals or tool. I am having it drop shipped from their warehouse in Fontana, CA.

Another note...my bearings so "Poland" on them. I guess they're not Chinese

By the way, my bike has 1,200 miles on it. Mostly dirt including a couple of deep stream crossings.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:21 AM   #114
tmex OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Well, I'm no blind BMW brand rider for sure but in their defense:
KTM uses the same rim (Beher)sp? as the 800 on the 950's. I know, I had one. Loved it btw.
My spokes are just as big and have not even needed adjustment yet. The weird thing on the spokes you see is the factory bend in them. Which is odd and questionable for sure. But so far, no problem with it for me anyway.
You might want to check this post relative to the Behr's suitability for use on the F800GS.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133025
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:29 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
Seems senseless to replace the bearings with the stock part.
As already noted, the problem seems to be always the rotor side. None of the other 4 bearings seem to fail. There's some other issue, whether its design related or simply a bad part/lot.

If my bike was out of warranty, I would absolutely follow your lead and I would buy upgraded bearings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
I agree with LILGS that torque should not matter due to the spacer.
Indeed. I agree with that top level assesment. But, still...my bearing failed. AND...it failed in such a way that the rotor side spacer moved [into the seal] enough that my ABS sensor was contacting the ring. So the bearing inner had some amount of axial play, even though the failure didn't 'machine' away any material. If the spacer in the wheel hub really took all of the load from the axle torque, I don't think I would get that ~1mm delta.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
I think to make this bike right you need to:

3> put an 18" rim out back while you are at it
Not really part of this discussion, but for my "right", the bike is needs a 19" front hoop. I'm looking for more of a 'do it all' than a 'do dirt better' machine, though.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:53 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F8GS
Another note...my bearings so "Poland" on them. I guess they're not Chinese
Even worse than I originally suspected. A chinese copy of a Polish bearing.
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:31 AM   #117
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I worked in manufacturing for a few years and saw the horrors of product failure from the inside.
A part is going to production and it specifies a bearing of a certain size. There are a few tiers of suppliers whose prices and quality vary. Some crackhead in a cubicle demands everyone run with the lowest priced bearing from Poland which is probably 75 cents cheaper and it becomes the primary supplier. Everything looks right on paper but in "practice" it is shit. Tolerances are never met 100% of the time so failure rate becomes far more than 1 in 100.

That same crackhead in the cubicle gets an end of the year bonus for saving 75 cents on a bearing which in the long run is going to cost the company a million $ in failure related costs.
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:44 AM   #118
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I dont think I implied they were great, just that BMW is not the only factory to use that brand. KTM does as well. Its not a BMW only thing was my point. Those rims are not news to me. I rode them for 15k miles on my 950.Most offroad btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
You might want to check this post relative to the Behr's suitability for use on the F800GS.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133025
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:57 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
T,
I dont think I implied they were great, just that BMW is not the only factory to use that brand. KTM does as well.
Woody http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133025 (post #7) said that Behr makes good rims but is the victim of BMW/KTM spec requested rims. Seems BMW/KTM send the specs that Behr meets for the contract. Behr then gets a bad rap for building what the manufacturer wants.

I've got to wonder just what failures are for real endemic and dangerous? Seems like the front axle (recall) and this bearing (future recall?) are the two that could maim or kill. Sorting out what else is either not life threatening or just the product of internet generated hysteria is the tough part. The real issues as opposed to the excrement occurs stuff.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:11 PM   #120
tmex OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law Dawg
Woody http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133025 (post #7) said that Behr makes good rims but is the victim of BMW/KTM spec requested rims. Seems BMW/KTM send the specs that Behr meets for the contract. Behr then gets a bad rap for building what the manufacturer wants.

I've got to wonder just what failures are for real endemic and dangerous? Seems like the front axle (recall) and this bearing (future recall?) are the two that could maim or kill. Sorting out what else is either not life threatening or just the product of internet generated hysteria is the tough part. The real issues as opposed to the excrement occurs stuff.
Therein lies another major beef I have with BMW. There is no front axle recall. It is a service bulletin. No one will ever get a recall notice. The axle will be replaced by the dealer during a scheduled service. Well...not everyone brings their bike to the dealer for service. I did not know that my front axle was on the list to be replaced until I had this bearing failure. Then the service manager told me (after I gave him my vin#) that "oh, btw we need to repalce your front axle". I believe this is a major issue with how BMW does business. Owners should be notified directly if there is a need or recommendation to replace a part. The bearings may go the same way - don't know.
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