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Old 08-17-2004, 02:20 PM   #1
Ian640 OP
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Question Third Oil Filter on an LC4

I believe the 660 rallye LC4s have 3 oil filters and considering fitting a third to my 640LC4-E. Anyone done this? Would appreciate comments on the following:

Possibility of increased engine longevity.
Possibility of increased intervals between oil changes.
Increased time to carry out an oil/filter change. Is additional bleeding etc. involved? Perhaps 660 rallye owners can shed some light on this.

Thanks in Advance.
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:37 PM   #2
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Looks like two in this drawing. The standard right side drop-in, and a E-Z access remote instead of the bottom of the downtube spin-on.
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Old 08-17-2004, 03:54 PM   #3
Ian640 OP
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What year is the diagram for?

I believe at least the 2000 and 2001 rally LC4s have 3 filters.

The pics here might help http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...&page=25&pp=15

Cheers.
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Old 08-17-2004, 04:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian640
What year is the diagram for?

Cheers.
Took it from KTMTalk. It's for the only year they list the 660 Rallye... '03.

I recall someone a few days ago, commenting on the "toilet paper" filter above the starter on a 90 something bike... now I know what they look like

Cheers back at'cha
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Old 08-17-2004, 05:21 PM   #5
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Man, I thought two fiilters was one too many, and you're looking for a way to add a third!

- Mark
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Old 08-17-2004, 05:34 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by markjenn
Man, I thought two fiilters was one too many, and you're looking for a way to add a third!

- Mark
No kidding! I just change my oil more often than KTM recommends... and that's probably being obsessive
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Old 08-17-2004, 06:46 PM   #7
ram1000
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I'm thinking of not changing the one on the lower side case anymore, and just changing the spin on. Seems to me that if you changed that more often you would have the same effect as having three filters.
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Old 08-17-2004, 07:15 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ram1000
I'm thinking of not changing the one on the lower side case anymore, and just changing the spin on. Seems to me that if you changed that more often you would have the same effect as having three filters.
I believe that combustion chamber leakage contamination of the oil is more of an issue than metal and clutch particulate contamination is. As chemical contamination is uninhibited by the filters, the only way to reduce the detrimental effects of premature oil viscosity and additive degradation is by more frequent oil changes.

But hey... that's just me

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Old 08-17-2004, 09:13 PM   #9
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I would think that if like Creeper you just changed the oil early, and changed the filters every other oil change things would be just fine. If your really concerned, why not perform an oil analysis, and find out what is really going on with your oil. (With the exception of possible fuel dilution issues on a model of bike with EFI the few oil analysis I have seen show the oil changed out at the Mfg's recomended interval was basically as good as new oil. (All non-LC4 bikes) In closely following oil analysis of synthetic oil used in MB turbo diesels, owners are finding that they can go twice the mfg interval, and the oil analysis comes back showing the oil could probably go another 50% longer yet. (I know this may not relate to these motors in anyway, but still it demonstrates how good modern synthetic oils are.)

I have temp tabs mounted on the oil resevoir and side cases of my bike, in three different areas, so long as I do not see a high temp indication, I change the oil at or before KTM's suggested interval, and feel quite secure in doing so.

When it comes to engine longevity, if anything the bearing, starter and cam/water drive issues are the ones that concern me.
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Old 08-17-2004, 09:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
I recall someone a few days ago, commenting on the "toilet paper" filter above the starter on a 90 something bike... now I know what they look like
yes, my '94 lc4 has the standard filter on the lower right side engine, and a toilet roll filter behind the engine above the gearbox. but it does not have the spin on at the bottom of the downtube.
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Old 08-18-2004, 03:35 AM   #11
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Yes, it'll mean additional time and cost for oil filter changes, but the more you do the quicker they get.

Here's the reasoning behind my original question:

1. I prefer to travel light, so I want to avoid carrying filters and oil. An option is to fit reusable filters. Any thoughts or experience of these?

2. It's difficult to buy fully synthetic oil in some parts of the world. For example, the last oil change I did away from home was in Niamey, Niger, where the best I could find was semi synthetic.

3. If at least some of the rally LC4s have a 3rd filter, then why?


Re: starter and cam/water drive issues.

What are these issues, as I had a water pump seal go once. Any mods or upgrades to prevent them?

Cheers.

Ian640 screwed with this post 08-18-2004 at 03:37 AM Reason: Minor adjustment
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Old 08-18-2004, 05:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian640
Yes, it'll mean additional time and cost for oil filter changes, but the more you do the quicker they get.

Here's the reasoning behind my original question:

1. I prefer to travel light, so I want to avoid carrying filters and oil. An option is to fit reusable filters. Any thoughts or experience of these?

2. It's difficult to buy fully synthetic oil in some parts of the world. For example, the last oil change I did away from home was in Niamey, Niger, where the best I could find was semi synthetic.

3. If at least some of the rally LC4s have a 3rd filter, then why?


Re: starter and cam/water drive issues.

What are these issues, as I had a water pump seal go once. Any mods or upgrades to prevent them?

Cheers.
I would think that the Rallye has the downtube filter relocated in order to speed up changes (seconds count for them). Are you in that much of a hurry?

I too am interested in the reusable oil filters, like Dual Star carries. My mechanic doesn't like them but I didn't quiz him too much on it. Maybe someone around here has experience with them. It would be great not to worry about finding filters in the lonely places of the world. but what about the second, and third if you are successful, oil filters? I haven't seen reusable models of those...

I would also guess that the Rallye has three because they need more protection for balls to the wall racing for days on end. If that is not how you drive, maybe you don't need three oil filters.

What water pump?
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:08 AM   #13
ChrisC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
I believe that combustion chamber leakage contamination of the oil is more of an issue than metal and clutch particulate contamination is. As chemical contamination is uninhibited by the filters, the only way to reduce the detrimental effects of premature oil viscosity and additive degradation is by more frequent oil changes. Creep
WTF???

Uninhibited....degradation....detrimental

I'm going into a semantical coma.........

CC
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:57 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ChrisC
WTF???

Uninhibited....degradation....detrimental

I'm going into a semantical coma.........

CC
Ah... my evil plan to put the world into a coma has begun... with "subject zero"
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:58 AM   #15
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I'm With Mack and Creeper,
I just change my oil more frequently. However, If on a long trip, I would just change the oil in the crankcase and the paper filter. I have talked to the service guy at the local dealer about just doing the crankcase and not the downtube. He said it's better than not doing anything. Plus I wouldn't have to bleed the damn thing.

About the re-usable oil filters. Some of the ktmtalk members are using the Scotts oil filters with great success. I have yet to do any extended travel in 3rd world countries. Most of my travels have been Mexico and the USA.

Now about that diagram that Creeper put up. I think I want that Oil cooler! Does anyone have the dimensions? For my kind of riding, it would be more usefull than another oil filter. It would give me more oil and keep it cool.
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