Third Oil Filter on an LC4

[Ian640]

OK, I'm considering a simple modification which might be of benefit for desert travel. Sounds like it's not worth it.

> What do you expect? That it seizes up at 1 km over the interval?

Obviously I don't expect that. However, I want my bike to last a long time and I view it like a nomad's camel: take care of it and it will take care of you. The conditions imposed by unsupported travelling in somewhere like the Sahara aren't kind. It's hot, dusty, the terrain is rough, the distances are long and the bike is weighed down with luggage. Not a Sunday afternoon ride.

> manufacturers of these kind of equipment really make an effort to extend said intervals as this

> sometimes a decisive selling argument

And surely the same applies to the so-called 'travel enduros'. I'm sure the bike manufacturers recognise that a potential purchaser of one of these bikes would see a longer service interval as a distinct advantage.

Perhaps KTM recommend a service interval for a good reason, like their own research and experience of a particular bike's use?

> The thing is that, unless you really can account for things like temps, engine speed and load during > the oils usage (like cars and trucks are beggining to do with computerized engine management)

> there's no way to warrant oil will still be OK after the recommended interval

Well said. I'm sure there's so many factors to take into account.

> On this rides you are riding much more sensible than in a competition

Generally, but ...

> I have a spare fine filter laying around. Interested??

Is it reusable?

> That's a 8500% rice between raw material and consumer price.

Isn't there a lot of effort involved in refining it?

Cheers.

[meat popsicle]

Originally Posted by Happe

Hey Meat,

On the Rallys like Dakar or Optic etc. the oil is changed in the evenings after the race. There is no hurry at all.
You will never see somebody changing oil during a race.
The factory Teams are changing oil every day.
The private riders sometimes didn't change at all.

Okie dokie, so why the relocation? Is it to fit the oil cooler. Your info on the need for the bigger oil pump with the cooler is fantastic Happe! If you have any other info I suggest you share it or, or, um, we will demand another shrubery!!!

[Carlos M]

Ian,

I can see where you're coming from... my only big trip with the 640 ended in a new conrod bearing, conrod, piston and cylinder. I did finish the 9000 km trip but at the unnerving sound of a kcnoking conrod. Not nice...

In this trip I decided not to change the oil in order of not having to carry it and to avoid the hassle of doing it. The bike was severely solicited (very light luggage, but worst sandy conditions I hope to ever find). Also, I wasn't very carefull with the air-filter cleaning as I was wearing an over filter. Anyway, the damage originated from the conrod bearing and the resulting debris fuc&%$ked up the cyl and piston while I travelled the remaining 2000 km on it.

I am quite sure oil wasn't degraded in its chemical properties in 7000 kms, but something killed the conrod bearing. The guy who repaired it knows a thing or two of motorcycle engines and wasn't that surprised with this failure. He says one can't expect miracles from big mono 640's ridden hard and he is familiar with similar conrod bearing failures in XR650's. Next time I'll stick to daily air filter cleaning routine and, if conditions are as bad as I got last time, I'll change the oil at 5.000 km.

[Happe]

Originally Posted by Ian640

> On this rides you are riding much more sensible than in a competition

Generally, but ...

Cheers.

Ok Ian, that sounds promissing. Ithink you should take more care of the airfilter in the real sandy conditions and also avoid all tuning modifications that might decrease the longlivity. Open exhaust, Open Airbox etc.

Originally Posted by Ian640

> I have a spare fine filter laying around. Interested??
Is it reusable?
Cheers.

Ehhh, the filter housing yes, but the loo paper???
Do you use your loopaper at home twice??
No, its a paperfilter and you have to change it at least once a year, these filter macerates after some time.

[Happe]

Originally Posted by meat popsicle

Okie dokie, so why the relocation? Is it to fit the oil cooler. Your info on the need for the bigger oil pump with the cooler is fantastic Happe! If you have any other info I suggest you share it or, or, um, we will demand another shrubery!!!

What relocation?
The Rally Replica models after 2000 are also equiped with three filters.
The normal one in the engine, the one on the frame and a second paperfilter in a special designed housing with a couple of connections for oil pipes.

Oilfilter Rally 2002

[meat popsicle]

Originally Posted by Happe

What relocation?
The Rally Replica models after 2000 are also equiped with three filters.
The normal one in the engine, the one on the frame and a second paperfilter in a special designed housing with a couple of connections for oil pipes.

Oilfilter Rally 2002

Oops, sorry Happe, I was comparing the Adv to the Rallye, as ktmnate asked a few pages ago about the oil cooler fit onto an Adventure.

[Happe]

Originally Posted by meat popsicle

Oops, sorry Happe, I was comparing the Adv to the Rallye, as Mack (?) asked a few pages ago about the oil cooler fit onto an Adventure.

Ahh, I got it.
Unfortunately the frame of the 2001 Rally is differend than the standard Lc4 Frame.
In '98 KTM had a few factory rally bikes fitted with oil coolers. Would be interesting to get some pictures of the mounting brackets
But anyway, it shouldn't be a big deal to MacGuyver the cooler on a Adventure.
The only expensive thing will be the oil pipe from the engine oilfilter. The short one from the cooler to the frame should be found on the SXC/SC models. And of course the oil pump.

[gybeman]

Geez, another oil thread. But, unless I missed it, the metal screen also constitutes as a crude filter. Hell, on some of my Jap bikes thats all there was... and they ran for years without problem or major wear. If you think you need another one for the LC4, I hope you don't ride it in the dirt or water. Change your oil regularly and you won't find much of anything in any of the filters.... unless you happen to run into the bad cam or main bearing problem. I say spend your money on those items. A spin-on, paper & screen filter, plus a magnetic plug seems like enough for just about anything.

[Cat0020]

Here are some interesting reading on oil:

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Oil and air filters..

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Fil...tml#AirFilters

[overlandr]

Originally Posted by gybeman

Geez, another oil thread. But, unless I missed it, the metal screen also constitutes as a crude filter. Hell, on some of my Jap bikes thats all there was... and they ran for years without problem or major wear. If you think you need another one for the LC4, I hope you don't ride it in the dirt or water. Change your oil regularly and you won't find much of anything in any of the filters.... unless you happen to run into the bad cam or main bearing problem. I say spend your money on those items. A spin-on, paper & screen filter, plus a magnetic plug seems like enough for just about anything.

I love these oil threads - they're like bacteria replicating in a petrie dish! Hey guys, don't forget gravity thats another "filter" as well. Lets have filters built in to all the pipes as well and then we can crank up the cost of a service a bit further!!!...
Maybe an on bike viscosity meter would be a handy gadget to indicate oil change time...? OMG,OMG...!!!!

[creeper]

Ah... guys? I was diagnosed with OCD years ago... what's your excuse?

[Happe]

Originally Posted by creeper

Ah... guys? I was diagnosed with OCD years ago... what's your excuse?

No real excuse,

I am simply stupid

[creeper]

Why I change the oil at 1500 to 2000 miles. (but still does not explain why clowns scare me )

Let’s say you have a single cylinder 4-stroke engine of 500cc displacement. Let’s say it has 2% leak down, measured with typical leak down equipment. 2% is actually very good for a production engine.

Now, just to make it fair, let’s say that when that engine is running at operating temperature, it has 0.5% leak down, actually “blow by�… one fourth of the static test.

Our theoretical 4-stroke engine, at 5000 rpm will have 2500 combustion events, or one per every two crankshaft revolutions, or four 4-cycle events.

So, we have .25cc by volume, of combined combustible material and combustion byproducts multiplied by 2500 combustion events per minute…

Can you see where I'm goin' with this?

Yes, I know it's not a perfect theory... but I needed something to jump back into this insane thread

[meat popsicle]

Always with the negative waves Moriarity!!!

oil tastes good!

So it seems that you (Happe) think the oil COOLER (not extra filter - creeper and overlandr) might be a good idea. Why? Not once has "thermal" breakdown been mentioned (shear, pH, etc)... If the bike ran cooler with it that would be a great thing. If it increased the time between oil changes it would also be good (but that is a quagmire that maybe I shouldn't step into, with some people changing their oil every time they start the bike ). What I am wondering is would the expense and trouble of fitting an oil cooler be worth it?

[creeper]

Originally Posted by meat popsicle

Always with the negative waves Moriarity!!!

oil tastes good!

So it seems that you (Happe) think the oil COOLER (not extra filter - creeper and overlandr) might be a good idea. Why? Not once has "thermal" breakdown been mentioned (shear, pH, etc)... If the bike ran cooler with it that would be a great thing. If it increased the time between oil changes it would also be good (but that is a quagmire that maybe I shouldn't step into, with some people changing their oil every time they start the bike ). What I am wondering is would the expense and trouble of fitting an oil cooler be worth it?

Watch it Meat... I am not a proponent of an extra filter... I am the "change your oil often" guy

Moto is "oil is cheap, engines are expensive"

You wanker you