ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-09-2009, 02:47 PM   #31
TBob
Offroad Fab Guy
 
TBob's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Oddometer: 694
was thinking after reading some of these post you think part of the issue may be those that leave the bike on the side stand vs. those that use the center stand? I know on my k motor it made a difference.
__________________
'13 BMW R1200 GS WC
01 KTM 520 EXC
Had God not driven man from the
Garden of Eden, the Sierra Club would have.
TBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 02:48 PM   #32
tmgs
...Trailers are for Boats
 
tmgs's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: N. E. Georgia, Space Coast FL.(sometimes)
Oddometer: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
Bought a new 1200GS last March and the bike has been burning about 1 quart of oil every thousand miles during its 3,800 miles. The Manhattan dealership says its normal - Im thinking I have a lemon. What's your experience?
are you sure your not overfilling it? really sure?

anyhow ours burned some oil for a while but I don't think they ever burned a quart every 1000 miles, and now with 35k on one and 30k on the other they don't seem to use a full quart between oil changes, rode mostly highway 80 mph ish. it was like you turned it off around 24k miles
tmgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 03:03 PM   #33
Helladius666
Adventurer
 
Helladius666's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Oddometer: 15
Cool2

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
Bought a new 1200GS last March and the bike has been burning about 1 quart of oil every thousand miles during its 3,800 miles. The Manhattan dealership says its normal - Im thinking I have a lemon. What's your experience?
My 2005 1200gs burned about as much as you say, I sold it with 25k km and accidentally saw it again after a year on the street and the owner said that he had no problems whatsoever. On the contrary my 2006 GSA burned no oil but at 20k km the engine went south (pierced piston-hit by valve) . I am not implying that there is a corelation between the two variables here, just illustrating my experience. BTW I was the first owner for both bikes....
Helladius666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 03:54 PM   #34
surfman OP
Journey
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Bear Mountain, NY
Oddometer: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Did you actually read the manual, or just ask someone to show it to you?
Your quote about oil consumption does not appear in my manual and the service dept at BMW has not been able to find it either.
surfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 05:08 PM   #35
marchyman
Cam Killer
 
marchyman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: SF Bay Area
Oddometer: 7,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
Your quote about oil consumption does not appear in my manual and the service dept at BMW has not been able to find it either.
As JetSpeed noted, it likely isn't in your manual. But the dealer not knowing it is just sad. The Technical Data section of the repair manual explicitly states
Permissible oil consumption 1 l/1000 km
That's 'l' is an L as in liter.

Some bikes burn more, others less. I don't know if it is the bike or the break-in. It took my R1150 almost 18K to stop using 1 qt/3000 miles. My R12GS uses maybe maybe 8 oz/6000 miles.

One think I can say from experience is that the bike, some of them anyway, does NOT like to be kept "topped up". I learned that long ago with an R80RT. If I filled the bike up it would immediately (within a couple hundred miles) burn off 1/2 a qt. If I topped it up again it would burn it off again. If, on the other hand, I let it go it would stay at that 1/2 qt down mark until the next 5K service!

These days I fill to about the "dot" on an oil change and add enough to bring it back to the "dot" if the oil gets to the bottom line.
marchyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 06:08 PM   #36
def
Ginger th wonder dog
 
def's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama
Oddometer: 9,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anorak
What about every other brand that uses cylinders plated with a nickel silicon carbide coating? Do they also burn oil as much as the GS? Also, Nikasil is a specific trade name for a proprietary process. Does BMW use that product or another one? My understanding is that Nikasil is a trade name belonging to Mahle, the OE manufacturer of BMW's cylinders, pistons and rings.

Ducati uses plated cylinders and they don't have the same history of oil burning as the BMW. Sorry, I have no knowledge of Ducati's engine design so will not comment.
Cylinder plating rather than installation of liners has been used in engine design from steam locomotives to internal combustion engines in a variety of applications. Porus hard chrome was popular years ago and was found in Porsche engines as well as other race engines. The polka dot pattern porus chrome was added to improve cylinder wall lubrication at high engine speeds.

Properly broken in, the BMW boxer engine will stop using oil once the rings/cylinder walls are bedded in. On some engines, this can take up to 15,000 miles. My GS quit using oil at 17,000 miles. Also, the engine exhibited some additional power at this time, likely due to parasitic friction being reduced.

As for oils, synthetics or non-synthetics, it doesn't matter...what matters is how you use the engine. Most boxer owners do not switch to synthetics until oil use has abated.
def is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 06:50 PM   #37
Anorak
Woolf Barnato
 
Anorak's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: OAK
Oddometer: 33,234
Def, take a look at the cylinders on your bike. Look for "Gilardoni" cast into them, that is who made them, not Mahle. The plating is "Gilnisil".
__________________
'Gonna get me a six pack...push people off the highway!'

"they live off the carrion of our mutual distrust and bribe us with symbols that equate hatred with manhood."

"I mean at the end of the day, I was addicted to Starting Fluid for Christ's sake!"

"Yeah, that guy sure is terrible at touching moms"
Anorak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 07:36 PM   #38
TruSound
Gnarly Adventurer
 
TruSound's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Granada Hills, California
Oddometer: 288
Break-In

I've always been one to go by the book on break-in...not this time, I've been pounding on the 08 GS since mile one with lots of high RPM engine braking.

Have a look at this...
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
TruSound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 07:41 PM   #39
fkahlert
BMW first timer
 
fkahlert's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Connecticut
Oddometer: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
It actually was in my manual. Anyone with an 05 care to look it up? I don't have mine anymore.

Point is, this is a permissable amount of oil ussage, and causes no harm to the motor.

Jim

PS 600 miles or 1000 miles, close enough.
Its in the 05 Rider's Manual. Section 9, Page 2 bottom. (actually its page 164)
"Maximal Oil consumption: 1.7qt / 1000 miles (1l / 1000km)

I just don't think that settles it. Too much fun a topic - remember it includes the word "Oil"
fkahlert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 08:55 PM   #40
durtysoul
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Oddometer: 36
BMW motors are not broken in for at least 20K miles,thats the price you pay for long term commitment. My 1100 gs puffed smoke on start up
until 25k and has never let me down,not yet anyway.
durtysoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2009, 09:21 PM   #41
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 50,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by fkahlert
Its in the 05 Rider's Manual. Section 9, Page 2 bottom. (actually its page 164)
"Maximal Oil consumption: 1.7qt / 1000 miles (1l / 1000km)

I just don't think that settles it. Too much fun a topic - remember it includes the word "Oil"
Thanks!

It is easy to NOT find it if you don't want to!

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 05:53 AM   #42
jeffjbmw
Threadkiller
 
jeffjbmw's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Leesburg, VA
Oddometer: 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by proxyissues
Not what I've experienced with my '09.
After the initial servicing (1000km) in the last 5000km I've had to add roughly .5L in oil.
This is where about 55-65% of those km's were in city, and often in stop and go traffic or jackrabbit starts.
And on the highway I have a very heavy wrist.
This represents a good break -in regiment.
__________________
You can never have too many motorcycles and musical instruments. But if it is only one of each....... a R1200GS. And a Martin 00-18H......

Read my blog: http://jeffszen.blogspot.com/
jeffjbmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 06:44 AM   #43
twotime
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: the pines
Oddometer: 47
oil

I Have New 09 1200gsa 200 Miles It Used 1/2 Half Qt They Also Use 10w 40 For Break In Had 2007 Rt That Did Same Thing At 1000 Miles Dump Oil And Filter Use The Bmw 20w 50 Then Change Oil At 3000 And 6000 Then Whent To Mobil 1 V Twin 20w 50 Never Used A Drop Betn Oil Change
twotime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 08:53 AM   #44
def
Ginger th wonder dog
 
def's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama
Oddometer: 9,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anorak
Def, take a look at the cylinders on your bike. Look for "Gilardoni" cast into them, that is who made them, not Mahle. The plating is "Gilnisil".
Anorak,

You are correct regarding the cylinder assembly not actually cast by Mahle. However, during a meeting with the Mahle folks in Frankfort several years ago, they indicated that while they did not cast the cylinder assemblies, they did supply the boxer cylinder assemblies (including piston, rings all lapped and ready for assmembly) to BMW. Also, it was indicated that the Nikasil surfacing was licensed by Mahle. Now, I don't know the details of Mahle's sourcing arrangements with others but, the cylinder/piston assemblies and fitments are controlled by Mahle. BTW, Mahle is a highly regarded OEM supplier doing business throughout the world. Their pistons assemblies are regarded as some of the finest.

Also, Gilardoni shares a similar reputation for supplying cylinders for many motorcycles, chain saws and other applications.

As for the boxer using oil, I cannot explain the differences in oil consumption from unit to unit but, I do know that on my boxer, it took 17,000 miles to stop consuming oil. It was interesting however, the plugs never did indicate oil use. I monitored plug color, using the same Autolite plugs over the first ~20,000 miles (the same Autolite 3923s are still in the engine at over 40,000 miles) and never observed much in the way of color change. I did however, notice a color change once I located from Houston, TX to the Birmingham, AL area. I attribute this to different fuel blends which are mandated locally.

Currently, I change oil and filter annually regardless of miles. I have yet to add oil during these OCIs. However, my boxer's early life oil consumption was ~1 qt./1000 miles.

In summary, early life boxer oil consumption is likely a function of several variables:

1- Break-in style/habits.
2- Oil brand used during the engine's early life.
3- Climate/ambient temperatures.
4- Riding conditions (traffic, stop and go, long haul).
5- New engine clearances.

I also suspect that not all the engine oil is consumed through blow-by. I believe some oil is consumed at the exhaust valve/stem interface, an expecially hot area in our boxer engines.

Anorak, you have much more engine experience than I do and therefore, I bow to your knowledge.

That said, some boxer owners experience much higher oil consumption than others. The reasons? I'll bet Mahle knows.

However, for the new-to-the-boxer owner, high oil consumption during early miles (less than 10,000 miles) should be of no concern. Merely monitor oil level and keep it topped up.
def is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 09:47 AM   #45
Anorak
Woolf Barnato
 
Anorak's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: OAK
Oddometer: 33,234
Def, from a BMW press release.
Quote:
Inside, the cylinders are finished with a high-strength, low-wear, extra smooth layer of Gilnisil, a special nickel silicon lining ("Gil" stands for the manufacturer,the Italian company Gilardoni) minimising frictional losses on metal surfaces running against each other. Further advantages of this design are minimum oilconsumption, high strength and stability also at high speeds and, as a result, along running life.
__________________
'Gonna get me a six pack...push people off the highway!'

"they live off the carrion of our mutual distrust and bribe us with symbols that equate hatred with manhood."

"I mean at the end of the day, I was addicted to Starting Fluid for Christ's sake!"

"Yeah, that guy sure is terrible at touching moms"
Anorak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014