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Old 12-28-2010, 08:51 PM   #751
Sparrowhawk
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This is great information. Thanks George for providing the details. FWIW the folks at MotoXotica agreed with the fagitaboutit conclusion for installing a kick start to the 630 or 610, adding that not only is it unsuccessful but the parts add up to an expensive package and are not available in North America. They have to be imported from Australia.

That settles it; I'm buying a KTM 690R cuz I don't like the lack of a kick start on the 630. Oops, no KS on the 690. How about a Husaberg? Nope. XRL? Nope. Hmmm.. I'm seeing a trend here. Now how does that capacitor thingy work?

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Old 12-29-2010, 01:17 AM   #752
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Eek

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Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk View Post
This is great information. Thanks George for providing the details. FWIW the folks at MotoXotica agreed with the fagitaboutit conclusion for installing a kick start to the 630 or 610, adding that not only is it unsuccessful but the parts add up to an expensive package and are not available in North America. They have to be imported from Australia.

That settles it; I'm buying a KTM 690R cuz I don't like the lack of a kick start on the 630. Oops, no KS on the 690. How about a Husaberg? Nope. XRL? Nope. Hmmm.. I'm seeing a trend here. Now how does that capacitor thingy work?
X2 on the thanx for the info and the capacitor thing
mabey two small light batteries , should still be lighter than stock.
husky starters never fail right
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:53 AM   #753
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How about two turntech batteries (or something similar). A main one for every day use & a smaller backup for those rare occasions when the mains drained. I doubt that combo would cost more than a kickstarter install + associated parts, & overall weight would still be less than the single factory battery. Just have a small master battery switch (available at most RV & marine supply outlets)
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:58 AM   #754
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Just have a small master battery switch (available at most RV & marine supply outlets)
But not that small, and also adds a lot of complexity and wiring. I'd rather carry a meter and tools and just change the thing out. it's what a 20 min job at the most.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:09 AM   #755
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Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
But not that small, and also adds a lot of complexity and wiring. I'd rather carry a meter and tools and just change the thing out. it's what a 20 min job at the most.
An easier option is using a heavy duty relay. The wiring complexity involved is not complex at all, hook up a switch near your dash , instant self boost.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:11 AM   #756
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An easier option is using a heavy duty relay. The wiring complexity involved is not complex at all, hook up a switch near your dash , instant self boost.
Til it fails. A relay switch and 3' of wiring for something you are supposed to use 'never' seems just a little bit like mindf*king the problem.

I can't keep the sand out of my horn switch for more than 3-4 months
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:26 AM   #757
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It all depends on if you want a backup system or not.
Not much of a different concept from having a new throttle or clutch cable ziptied into position & ready for use.

A lot will also depend on where you plan to ride, will you be riding alone, or with someone that can help. Is it a quick rip on local trails, or a cross country adventure.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:30 AM   #758
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Originally Posted by Ruffus View Post
It all depends on if you want a backup system or not.
Not much of a different concept from having a new throttle or clutch cable ziptied into position & ready for use.

A lot will also depend on where you plan to ride, will you be riding alone, or with someone that can help. Is it a quick rip on local trails, or a cross country adventure.
AND, when your a battery dies you're kinda assuming it won't short and take B's capability with it. so now you need to disconnect A with a second relay.

Vs moving two screws!?
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Oh for ***k's sake Aaron. Please link us to my fascist, racist or homophobic posts.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:44 AM   #759
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Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
AND, when your a battery dies you're kinda assuming it won't short and take B's capability with it. so now you need to disconnect A with a second relay.

Vs moving two screws!?
Actually just one screw, the negative posts can remain hooked up

Personally, if I were to do it, I'd go the simplest route (one screw method).
My idea with the switch or relay was just for ease of use. But then again I have the advantage of a kick starter
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:29 PM   #760
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Thanks to George for the clarification about BOTH issues, the KS AND how hard it REALLY IS compared to other thumpers to bumpstart the 610..


but still... there MUST be an easy way to do it.. I mean, a buddy did it on his XR.. **chirp chirp** %@crickets#%
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:56 PM   #761
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OK THIS THREAD WAS JUST BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION.

The reason I will tell all who ask about K-Start conversion on TE-610E or Smr 610E or the 630' and advize them against it is for the following reason

Most importantly when you start your kick stroke from the very top of the stroke with k-start gear engaged, much higher up than confortable. You give it a full very longstroked kick and the piston doesn't go more than 1 cycle. I forget what the number was but something like a 3 foot kick stroke and the piston moves about 3 inches not enough to turn the motor over enough to start it. The 510 gives about a 3 to 1 ratio meaning 1 kick stroke gives at least 3 strokes on the piston. 610 1 long kick stroke and maybe 1 piston stroke.
Because the kick ratio is so far off the motor doesn't even spin fast enough for the CDI ignition to build enough energy to give a good spark. Magnito, or point ign would probably work but couldn't retard timing enough where it wouldn't take and put your ankle next to your ear lobe.
Only reason I ever put one on my TE is for a bar bet as in (Bet you a beer you can't k-Start it).
I should also just for clarity sake I am talking K-ratio meaning both k-start gears and the primary gear ratio's combined, to make it simple as possible a small k-gear running up and turning a very large gear which turns another gear that is still larger than the K gear.

It's not a comp issue, or anything other than piston just doesn't move enough for the stroke of the k-start.
Later George

Where did you purchase the kick start conversion kit or parts for your "610" beer bet? What else did you change in the case to accomodate the kicker lever?


Just for clarity when you say the 510 has three strokes of the piston per kick that would indicate the engine is still only having one stroke (power stroke) of the normal four strokes (four cycle engine) that it would require to fire with spark? So techincally if one knew how to slowly kick the engine over on the 610 to positon the piston at the top of the compression stroke there would be one opportunity to fire the engine up on the power stroke, correct? Each bike would only get one power stroke with spark per full kick to start regardless of the ratios involved, correct? In addition if the 510 was just past the spark in the power stroke when attempting to kick start, one full kick would not even provide enough piston strokes to obtain spark and start, correct?




1. INTAKE stroke: On the intake or induction stroke of the piston , the piston descends from the top of the cylinder to the bottom of the cylinder, reducing the pressure inside the cylinder. A mixture of fuel and air is forced by atmospheric (or greater) pressure into the cylinder through the intake port. The intake valve(s) then close.
2. COMPRESSION stroke: With both intake and exhaust valves closed, the piston returns to the top of the cylinder compressing the fuel-air mixture. This is known as the compression stroke.
3. POWER stroke.: While the piston is close to Top Dead Center, the compressed air–fuel mixture is ignited, usually by a spark plug (for a gasoline or Otto cycle engine) or by the heat and pressure of compression (for a diesel cycle or compression ignition engine). The resulting massive pressure from the combustion of the compressed fuel-air mixture drives the piston back down toward bottom dead center with tremendous force. This is known as the power stroke, which is the main source of the engine's torque and power.
4. EXHAUST stroke.: During the exhaust stroke, the piston once again returns to top dead center while the exhaust valve is open. This action evacuates the products of combustion from the cylinder by pushing the spent fuel-air mixture through the exhaust valve(s).




Since the mascot is here I don't need any of his cheerleaders responding to this post or waving their pom poms. Just keep yourselves busy with something more important.




.
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Fast1 screwed with this post 12-29-2010 at 05:15 PM
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:48 PM   #762
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Where did you purchase the kick start conversion kit or parts for your "610" beer bet? What else did you change in the case to accomodate the kicker lever?


.
WTF? - where did he get it? Yeah from some third party supplier?

You are out of your league here - and to think I actually tried to support you.

By the way - thanks for the infantile explanation of how a four stroke works - can you post up one on a two stroke.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:34 PM   #763
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WTF? - where did he get it? Yeah from some third party supplier?

You are out of your league here - and to think I actually tried to support you.

By the way - thanks for the infantile explanation of how a four stroke works - can you post up one on a two stroke.
Yay! I thought this train already wrecked, but I see another (somewhat dim) light in the tunnel. This should be fun
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Originally Posted by Just_Sean
Oh for ***k's sake Aaron. Please link us to my fascist, racist or homophobic posts.
"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either."
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:41 PM   #764
pelican1
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If I had one I would want it kick only. The fact that you can't kick them is retarded. Why overcomplicate things with a starter and more complicated electronics? It's just more crap to go wrong not to mention weight gain.
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:22 PM   #765
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It's almost as though, someone tampered with the office water cooler, or spiked the punch bowl at a twelve step birthday bash. Or is it just the fallout from routine seasonal issues, the painful end of the riding season,
ninja thread killers from KTMTalk.com or what ?

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