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Old 10-25-2010, 08:58 PM   #136
BlueLghtning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
Maybe I best add a little more clarification. I think Tet should remain free on ADV, and only on ADV. I would like to keep this in the hood. I also do not want to give the impression that if you have no input, you have no right to the file. Free for the asking by any ADV member.
Thanks for the clarification on this!
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:10 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by NorthernTraveler
The intent of the TET is to provide a route from Canada to the south coast.... the keys if we can, but somewhere on the south coast for sure!

This is in response to the west coast having TWO routes that run border to border (the PCQ and CDR).

.....

Having ridden many of the long routes in the last few years I think it would behoove us to have a main route as the designated 'TET', and optional other routes for side trips.

Look at the most famous big route - TAT - does it have a lot of options? Nope... big bike bypasses in a few areas, but the route is intended to be rideable by almost all dual sport bikes.

Would the hard core dirt guys (I used to be one of them) like some harder dirt - yep. But you really can't ride that hard of stuff the distances you will be covering to go border to border. And the big boys can't get into that stuff either. You really want a long ride to be somewhat challenging at times, mostly scenic, and always fun.

The realities are that a mix of stuff is whats really necessary for a long run of this type. As much dirt as possible, but there are times you can't find dirt. And zig zagging all over the place just insures that not many will ever ride the whole thing.... it takes too long and too much energy. On the TAT you get to see the continent unfold beneath your wheels.... on the TET you get to see the length of one side of it.
Thanks for this clarification NT.


Quote:
Originally Posted by craftycoder
BTW, I have a new section to offer to you. I scouted another route to Florida 3 weekends ago. Its the eastern track of these two. The western track I've sent you once before. As you can see, the map below shows photos from the road to clarify what to expect. It was an awesome route, though at little remote in places. I went 170 miles with seeing gas at one point.
This is what I had in mind with my description.

Having seen what NT wrote above then I guess I agree that maybe a main TET route that is capable of people covering some mileage would be good and then for example, this route provided by Crafty could be something a bit more "dirt oriented" that offers other options to riders. These could be the spurs I was talking about that offer a more challenging ride if you are so inclined?

Overall, I'm just happy to see this coming together and I look forward to contributing in some shape & form.
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Old 10-26-2010, 01:03 PM   #138
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I had another beer, slept on it, and dwelled on some of the comments from yesterday.

As I have stated earlier in this thread, Tet is a concept. That concept was explained rather well by NT just a few posts earlier. DS routes subjected to the “scientific method” would best describe the approach. Hypothesize, run an experiment, and publish the results to a group of your peers seems to best explain it. We, at this moment, hold a group of those routes that have in essence passed muster. The author, or his/her designated rider, has ridden them. They have all been subjected to a review of their peers, both digitally and literally. They have all been distributed freely, albeit by direct request in some cases.

The short list:

“TetS”

“ST” from the Twvt

“TetNJ”

“The Black Hole”

One of those, The Black Hole, does not carry a dedicated thread. But, it has been offered for review. It has been directly subjected to review. And, it is subject to final review in a coming release.

All of the above carry routes, tracks, and documentation. It cannot be said enough, they carry a lot of work from some very dedicated people.

How do you become an author? Post em' if you got em' seems the most common approach. Simple enough, put your inner most secrets, a run through the honey hole, or just a vision in some sort of decipherable format.

How do you obtain peer review? Well, first you must have peers. You must have peers that you can establish a rapport with. Publishing in an intimate setting, showing loyalty, and showing support helps immensely with feed back.


Presentiment:


Tet will exist as a file/files, surely by spring. The details of that I touched on, when I poured the free drink. Surely revisions and addenda are to follow. We must decide scope(i.e. Do we include some files from the long list?), and address the details of melding the chosen. This does not exclude development of future candidates.


Rob and Bill have the tracks and routes laid down on TetNJ and the Black Hole, Bill and I have done some work on the documentation. I have the routes and tracks in pretty good shape for ST, there is one 10 mile section that still needs a little work, and the documentation is in pretty good shape. NT and BL are working on a bypass that sounds like it will be finished within the month. Documentation on TETS is almost non existent.

NorthernTraveler, Bluelightning, and MoBill, I'm gonna pour you another.
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Old 10-26-2010, 01:27 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
Documentation on TETS is almost non existent.

NorthernTraveler, Bluelightning, and MoBill, I'm gonna pour you another.
My southern route is reasonably well documented. I need to make some time to go ride TETS as it is now and document it like I documented my route.

As the goal is to go to the Keys, I don't quite understand why TETS heads so far west. I'm sure we can come up with a more direct and as entertaining route that skips blights on the Earth, like Atlanta, but doesn't go quite so far out of the way. Atlanta is a serious challenge to navigate around but I think it can done.

Is there a consensus regarding the general location of TETS? Meaning, am I the only one who thinks it goes pretty far out of the way of the ultimate goal.

Now, I'm going to go pour my own.
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Old 10-26-2010, 03:51 PM   #140
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:57 AM   #141
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Craftycoder, I'm going to try and address your question. I need to go back to some things that BlueLghtning touched on first.

BlueLightning said something to the effect that an initial goal of Tet was to connect to Jellico TN, the start of the TAT. That is kinda sorta true. It was the initial goal of the Twvt to connect to Jellico, and also the works of Rob23(TNJT). That would provide a coast to coast DS avenue if you include the TAT. That has been done, published. Tet was born from those acts. To another point that you mentioned, alternate routes, I whole heartedly agree. The Twvt has quite few of those and it has worked well.

Craftycoder, to the direction of Tet, I have never pushed a direction. What I have done is helped some individuals realize from concept an idea made real. Again the name Rob23, someone that I hold in the highest of regards, had published the concept of the Trans App Trail. NorthernTraveler picked that concept up and ran with a fervor, with the graces of Rob. It seemed natural to him, for many previously defined reasons, to use that concept as a “backbone”. I jumped on the train, as well as a few others. We have spent the past 18 months pouring over maps(hard copy and digital), wearing out tires and sprockets, sharing e-mails, sharing PMs, sharing forum posts, and generally living eating and breathing this stuff.

We have a backbone that will be published. Does it go where you want it to go? Obviously not. Can it go where you want it to go? Absolutely, but to incorporate any alternates or changes into this release would require more time than I think we have. Nothing would excite me more than for you to prove me wrong on that point, I mean that in all sincerity.

I again stress that this will be a HUGE file. That is not a complaint that this is too much work to be done, although I do welcome and will certainly accept some of the help that has been offered. The job at hand, right now, this very minute, is how to package a file this size. That very subject will have a tremendous impact on the evolution of this project.
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:02 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
Does it go where you want it to go? Obviously not. Can it go where you want it to go?
It's not about where I want it to go. I don't have an opinion, BUT if the stated goal is to get to the Keys it makes sense to start heading that way by the time the road gets to Georgia. At least it does to me.
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:04 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by intothenew
Sure, the Florida Keys would be nice. But someone has to make it to the Flatistan border for that to happen.
Is this where you draw that conclusion from?
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:35 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by intothenew
Is this where you draw that conclusion from?
Gosh, I don't know where I got the impression. I have it in my head that the Keys were the goal. I've seen mention of it a few times in this thread. I'd rather the goal was Apalachicola personally. I don't have any great interest in rolling all of Flatistan twice but I would like to run TET and past up to Halifax. Whatever the goal is, I would like to see that it is done as best as we can figure. As I'm a Georgite I feel a greater responsibility for my neck of the woods. If the Keys were the goal, I would vote to aim for a different route south from the Carolinas, if the Keys are not the goal then skipping most of Georgia isn't a big deal at all.

There isn't a rule that says TET needs to hit any extremes of the continent or anything. It's not like Jellico or Port Orford are extraordinary after all. The first rule in solving problems is identifying exactly what problem you are trying to solve. Hence my trying to clarify the goals of this project the other day. Specifically, the geographical confines of this project.
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:36 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
Craftycoder, I'm going to try and address your question. I need to go back to some things that BlueLghtning touched on first.

BlueLightning said something to the effect that an initial goal of Tet was to connect to Jellico TN, the start of the TAT. That is kinda sorta true. It was the initial goal of the Twvt to connect to Jellico, and also the works of Rob23(TNJT). That would provide a coast to coast DS avenue if you include the TAT. That has been done, published. Tet was born from those acts. To another point that you mentioned, alternate routes, I whole heartedly agree. The Twvt has quite few of those and it has worked well.
Cool, I wasn't sure what the original intent was. I think its a nice work in progress and I still see lots of potential for it.

Quote:
I again stress that this will be a HUGE file. That is not a complaint that this is too much work to be done, although I do welcome and will certainly accept some of the help that has been offered. The job at hand, right now, this very minute, is how to package a file this size. That very subject will have a tremendous impact on the evolution of this project.
Yeah, that might be a tough part there? Are the files getting that big already?
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:56 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by craftycoder
Hence my trying to clarify the goals of this project the other day. Specifically, the geographical confines of this project.
There has never been geographical confines on the goals.

I really like that one. I'm gonna say it again.

There has never been geographical confines on the goals.
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Old 10-27-2010, 07:01 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by BlueLghtning
Yeah, that might be a tough part there? Are the files getting that big already?
The Twvt has reached a presumed practical limit for the average gps. It is chump change compared to this, especially if you use your imagination on the future. I will have you a draft file possibly this weekend.
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Old 10-27-2010, 07:09 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by intothenew
The Twvt has reached a presumed practical limit for the average gps. It is chump change compared to this, especially if you use your imagination on the future. I will have you a draft file possibly this weekend.
Are you talking about loading the file as a whole on a GPS? I didn't think of it that way, but yeah I could see that being an issue. However, on the other side if I get a file that is technically too big to fit in my GPS (ie too many routes, tracks, waypoints, whatever), I can just copy out what I need and break it into a smaller file? That might not be as user friendly for the less technical GPS users, but its also not that hard to do.

Hmm, it is stuff to think about though.
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Old 10-27-2010, 07:19 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by BlueLghtning
That might not be as user friendly for the less technical GPS users
And I'm thinkin' about that guy/gal, riding a 1200 pig or a Super Sherpa.
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Old 10-27-2010, 07:24 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
The Twvt has reached a presumed practical limit for the average gps. It is chump change compared to this, especially if you use your imagination on the future. I will have you a draft file possibly this weekend.
That is easy to get around by making it a GPS map rather than a GPX file. I've got TAT created as a Garmin Map and it has active logs from Mississippi to Port Orford plus over 2000 waypoints. That doesn't have to be a problem at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
There has never been geographical confines on the goals.
That certainly will make it more difficult to proceed. I don't think it's true though. Someone posting tracks of a wicked cool ride in Hawaii to this forum would be thanked and asked to move along. There are geographical confines. You may not like to limit the project, which is fine, but in order to get people working productively we need to know what to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernTraveler
The intent of the TET is to provide a route from Canada to the south coast.... the keys if we can, but somewhere on the south coast for sure!
NorthernTraveler certainly believes there to be confines. He didn't mean the south coast of Tasmania did he? I'm pretty sure that you are only one here who thinks this project isn't about some geographical area. If we can narrow the focus down far enough, we'll be able to get to the much more fun work of turning this project into something that any inmate can run as a summer vacation without having had to toil over making a route. That's what I would like to see, rather than these arguments over semantics that don't further my goal. I want to read ride reports from inmates who had the time of their life riding TET.
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