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Old 02-05-2013, 10:08 AM   #2101
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
You guys just can't see far enough past your own neighborhood.
There's a group of people out there that live in a land of $2000 pens, and $20,000 watches. They own quantities of them.
I know people like that. The things they buy have name brands that have perceived value that goes along with the high price.

Sure, there are going to be a few people out there who will want to buy a MOTUS. Those people will not be buying the bike as a status symbol. It has no status, and it has no perceived value.

The biggest problem with MOTUS at this point is they are simply not available for purchase. And, may never be.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:45 AM   #2102
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The baby boomer's drove the custom chopper boom since that's what they rode in their twenty's. Maybe the Gen Y (or X or whatever they/me are called) will drive a custom sport tourer boom, or enough of a boom to support Motus. The lack of name recognition can actually increase the prestige factor for some. Try telling anyone that's not really 'into' bikes you have a bi-moto, and they'll say "wow- I never even heard of them, must be exclusive!" It certainly looks the part.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:24 AM   #2103
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Originally Posted by Carter Pewterschmidt View Post
You just proved my point. Then not only did you decide not to buy one but you then go ahead and make a comment that other people probably will. Seriously...
The fact that "I" took my money back because "I" can not personally afford doesn't prove your point in the least. It only proves that I don't earn enough to own specialty items like this. I can't afford the new Vette either, BTW. . You've stated in prior post that "no one" will buy it because it's too expensive for what you get. My neighbor owns several good looking claasic hot rods, he digs the V4, he just doesn't ride. If he rode, he would have it and said so. He can well afford it.

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Originally Posted by Carter Pewterschmidt View Post

And you're comparing apples to oranges talking about choppers. As it's been said $40k choppers are an image thing. It's all about looking cool.
Even a $15k chooper is about looking cool, never mind the extra $25k. Some people want to be perceive as looking cool not matter what price or hobby.

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Originally Posted by Carter Pewterschmidt View Post
The Motus may look cool to us nerdy bike guys cause it's got a V4 and Ohlins suspension, but the guys with the disposable income that are riding choppers wouldn't even give that bike a second glance.

You completely missed my point. Of course the chopper guys won't give the Motus a second look if it isn't a chopper. What a ridiculous statement. The point was that there are people with $40k disposable incomes out there that would buy the Motus. One look at the local rich boys country club track around here (Motorsport Ranch) and you'll see exotic race bikes in their garage next to their exotic cars. I admit to not knowing them personally but I do know they have the bank account for it. I can even see then throwing the engine into a chassis for their spec car series. Let's not forget the crowd that streches swingarms, adds a 240 and polishes every bit of exposed metal and applies custom paint to their open class bikes. Locally I recognize about an extra $15k on top of the bike price on these machines. Even the hoodlums have the money. How many people on this site have farkled a bike to a $30k mark so they can extended tour and do IBA runs?

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Originally Posted by Carter Pewterschmidt View Post
If they were building an adventure bike I might change my tune because that's a hot market right now. It's the market that's stealing customers away from sport touring bikes. BMW hands down outsells every other bike they make with their GS line. They sell almost 4 times as much of them as they do the K16. Ducati stopped making the ST, replaced with an adv type bike, Triumph is dropping the Sprint soon but only after they made that Explorer and the Tiger 800, Suzuki will keep the bandit because it's cheap, and Honda came out with the VFR but only so they could share the motor with what? An Adventure bike. Just look at this forum. This is one of the biggest bike forums out there and it's not called Sport Touring Rider.
So you're saying that they're doomed because it is a sport tourer? An adventure bike is a much bigger risk. The adv market is saturated. There's 650, 800, 1200 of various levels of build from every manufacturer but Suzuki. There's a lot less options in the sport touring market if you don't want something that's a bloated FJR or the like. I think they've found a hole to fill.

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Originally Posted by Carter Pewterschmidt View Post
These comments come from personal knowledge and experience and are purely opinions. I say these things not of jealousy from a lack of income. I have worked in the bike industry, I currently make my living off of understanding markets, and I just got back from a 4200 mile road trip. I've seen some things...

So in an effort to make you sound less foolish may I ask you to please refrain from making comments as if you know anything about me.
You couldn't possibly make me look foolish. You've may have seen some things. I know things because I've experienced it. Born out of a racing hobby that snowballed, I created and ran a business that specialized in building high performance drivetrain and chassis aftermarket parts for American V-twins and dirt singles. I know exactly how tough the market is. I engineered, manufactured, marketed and sold everything single handedly and was succesful for a good 6 years before the market no longer was thriving enough for me to justify keeping the doors open and pay for the machinery and building space. Not to mention I got older and needed more sleep. I sold everything via internet and directly to dealerships, even doing the build work for the dealerships as required. I've been there and did it out of my own pocket. I can only imagine that with investors and the influx of money that could allow me to run the business full time instead of as a side job to my regualr job, I could likely still be doing it and doing it bigger. This knowledge of running the business and knowing the market makes me believe they'll do well. Just slowly. Hell, they couldn't do any worse than Indian or Exelsior Henderson.

Still none of this means I know the Motus business plan anymore than anyone else here. Like others have said, they surely have one and there's also experience from working at Confederate on their side. It's not like they don't know what they've gotten into. And the market? By looking around, everywhere I go, I would never know an economic crisis has hit us. There's hope for them.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:32 AM   #2104
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
It has no status, and it has no perceived value.
So you believe that in order to have status you must be well known in addition to being expensive? Perhaps with the "label" crowd.

What about all the upstart, exclusive car manufacturers out there that have no history in manufacturing or racing, yet they still build a car or 2 per year at 1/2 million+ for the insanely rich? They buy it because no one else has one. I'm sure that qualifies as status.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:57 PM   #2105
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Motus looks like they have a great product. If it's as good in reality as it appears to be, the moto mags should slobber all over them.

I'm pulling for them. They are a couple of hours down the road from me and I'd love to see them become the Koenigsegg (or at the very lease Shelby or Saleen) of motorcycles.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:01 PM   #2106
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This thread is on the "express elevator to hell, going down!"



Can we keep it civil before it gets dumped into Head Explody?
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:19 PM   #2107
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Originally Posted by X1Glider View Post
So you believe that in order to have status you must be well known in addition to being expensive? Perhaps with the "label" crowd.
"the label crowd" are the ones who spend money on things like $30k-$40k motorcycles. Screamin' Eagle, known builders, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by X1Glider View Post
What about all the upstart, exclusive car manufacturers out there that have no history in manufacturing or racing, yet they still build a car or 2 per year at 1/2 million+ for the insanely rich? They buy it because no one else has one. I'm sure that qualifies as status.
Which upstart? The ones I know of have racing heritage. McLaren, etc.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:20 PM   #2108
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Can we keep it civil before it gets dumped into Head Explody?
I vote on locking the sumbitch.

All this talk about a mythical bike...
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:07 PM   #2109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
"the label crowd" are the ones who spend money on things like $30k-$40k motorcycles. Screamin' Eagle, known builders, etc.




Which upstart? The ones I know of have racing heritage. McLaren, etc.


Pagani for one.
What status did Lamborghini have in 1962?
You have to start somewhere, so starting small, low volume and exclusive seems logical to me.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:41 PM   #2110
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:55 PM   #2111
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Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
Pagani for one.
What status did Lamborghini have in 1962?
You have to start somewhere, so starting small, low volume and exclusive seems logical to me.
Koenigsegg is another. Took 8 years to get the first one to market. Built 2 each year the first 3 years. Someone bought them. Company has zero racing heritage I know of. Just a shitload of investors.

Open any Car and Driver issue and you'll see at least one name of Supercar you've likely never heard of that has no heritage. They build one or 2 per year and someone buys it just to say they have something no one else has even if no one else has ever heard of it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:35 PM   #2112
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Maybe the investors can dig up all the riffraff in their families and throw them into a make believe manufacturing facility to argue and fight in front of tv cameras and sell it to the networks for a few million to help out their struggling enterprise.It's not like its never been done before.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:36 PM   #2113
rocker59
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Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
Pagani for one.
What status did Lamborghini have in 1962?
You have to start somewhere, so starting small, low volume and exclusive seems logical to me.
MOTUS should've picked an Italian-sounding name...

The one they picked is stoopit!



Pagani came from Lamborghini.

Lamborghini was a known rich industrialist customer of Ferrari who put his own money into building a GT car after being insulted by Enzo.
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rocker59 screwed with this post 02-05-2013 at 03:42 PM
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:37 PM   #2114
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+1
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:45 PM   #2115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
MOTUS should've picked an Italian-sounding name...

The one they picked is stoopit!



Pagani came from Lamborghini.

Lamborghini was a known rich industrialist customer of Ferrari who put his own money into building a GT car after being insulted by Enzo.
I didn't ask for your history lesson, I asked you to tell me what brand cachet they had before building expensive butt jewellry.

Why don't you tell us how Lamborhini tractors were exotic and their reputation transferred over.
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