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Old 03-18-2013, 06:32 AM   #2386
Moronic
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"There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune; ..."

Have the Motus guys missed theirs?

When the bike was announced, I didn't think potential customers would mind doing without electronic rider aids.

But with the latest crop of adventure tourers sporting multi-mode ABS, allegedly subtle TC and electronic cruise, I am wondering whether that will still be the case if this thing finally gets into showrooms next year.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:03 AM   #2387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmelby View Post
One very good reason for using the push-rod type valve articulation is for the lower overall height of the motor. No need for shim-under-bucket-under-cam, height stack up.

With 1600cc of motor, why should there be any requirement for overhead cams? If they can make the motor breathe sufficiently with 2 valves, push-rod actuation, what is the problem?

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That's mostly true if you compare engines of equal displacement. But they built a relatively large engine to get the alleged 160hp from the Motus. When you compare it to OHC Japanese 4's of roughly equal output I'm not sure there's much difference. The engine doesn't appear all that short to me or all that compact but I haven't seen one IRL to say for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
You're missing the maintenance aspect, but more importantly the engine's specific output which is strong.
My thoughts on the engine's output are above. I agree on the maintenance aspects. I'm not looking forward to the upcoming valve adjustment on my Ninja. The interval is 15K miles though so it's not a show stopper for me. That's about 2 years of riding.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:13 AM   #2388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSharp View Post
That's mostly true if you compare engines of equal displacement. But they built a relatively large engine to get the alleged 160hp from the Motus. When you compare it to OHC Japanese 4's of roughly equal output I'm not sure there's much difference. The engine doesn't appear all that short to me or all that compact but I haven't seen one IRL to say for sure.



My thoughts on the engine's output are above. I agree on the maintenance aspects. I'm not looking forward to the upcoming valve adjustment on my Ninja. The interval is 15K miles though so it's not a show stopper for me. That's about 2 years of riding.


If I recall the Motus is rated at 160, or 185 hp.
Aside from a 'drag bike' like the ZX14, doesn't BMW's 1400 six make about 140?

RedRocket screwed with this post 03-18-2013 at 08:53 AM Reason: I missed the 0.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:20 AM   #2389
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Originally Posted by kraven View Post
It seems like a safe bet though, doesn't it? I mean, look at the US population. We like V-twins that are really cutting edge steampunk technology. NASCAR is a massively profitable sport where people watch pushrod v8's that haven't been in mass production here for... decades now?
We seem to have moved from innovation in the early 20th century to nostalgia.
And if you go to a car show, you'll see half a million pushrod Chevy v8's there in cars at various levels of restoration. Most built with bolt on parts and low degrees of engineering.

So, maybe Motus hasn't necessarily made the best move for a breakthrough, they seem to have nailed what Americans are and will buy at this point in time.
Granted, most of us trust our commute and family hauling to high tech gizmo engines, but when we play on our toys we like to use the wayback machine.
Pushrods exist in racing series mostly because the rules say they have to. NASCAR in particular is a drivers series running what amounts to spec racers. Different manufacturers have their own engines but what's allowed is restricted enough that all the brands are withing a few HP of each other.

Plenty of Americans do seem to be fine with Steampunk but I'm not sure they're the same Americans that will buy this bike for $30K+. I mean that literally, I have no idea if the bike will sell once it's in production.

I like the idea of the bike and I'd like it to sell even if I do find some things about it disappointing. For $30K I'd like a little more technology than a pushrod engine and off the shelf suspension and luggage hung on a steel tube frame.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:29 AM   #2390
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Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
If I recall the Motus is rated at 169, or 185 hp.
Aside from a 'drag bike' like the ZX14, doesn't BMW's 1400 six make about 140?
This link says 160HP. Hard to say though since very few people have even ridden one let alone put one on a dyno.

http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/kmv4.html

A current model stock ZX14 is about 180HP at the wheel from everything I've read and it's a tractable engine. The power isn't up high like a ZX10R or the other Literbikes. I suspect a current Hayabusa is similar.

The BMW is similar in power but it's a large touring bike that doesn't pretend to be sporty.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:13 AM   #2391
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Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
Aside from a 'drag bike' like the ZX14
Drag bike? I thought of my ZX as more of a daily driver/tourer.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:14 AM   #2392
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Motus is claiming over 100 hp per liter from a naturally aspirated, 2 valve, pushrod motor. That's doable but it denotes a pretty high state of tune, much higher than the corvette exhibits. That claim actually puts them in NASCAR territory for specific output. I doubt that they can build a reliable engine that's drivable, durable and meets emissions and produce that level of output.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:15 PM   #2393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevie88 View Post
Motus is claiming over 100 hp per liter from a naturally aspirated, 2 valve, pushrod motor. That's doable but it denotes a pretty high state of tune, much higher than the corvette exhibits. That claim actually puts them in NASCAR territory for specific output. I doubt that they can build a reliable engine that's drivable, durable and meets emissions and produce that level of output.
The Z06 produces 505 HP from 7.0l, so around 72hp/l. Of course that's a production car engine, where torque is so important and it has to survive GM's durability testing.

Buell made 102hp from 1.2l (85hp/l) from a two valve air-cooled sportster based engine.

100hp/l doesn't seem too difficult to achieve from a water cooled, Corvette based design that will be used on a motorcycle. The valve area/cc of a 1.6l V4 is much greater than a 7.0l V8 and the reciprocating mass is much much less, so it should rev and still be reliable.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:57 PM   #2394
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Since there's no actual Motus engine yet in the wild....:(

Here's some NASCAR data from the always accurate Wikipedia:

Engine Displacement: 5.86 L (5,860 cc) (358 in) Pushrod V8.
Transmission: 4 Speed Manual.
Weight: 3,200 lb (1,451 kg) (without driver, fuel); 3,400 lb (1,542 kg) (with driver, fuel).[32]
Power Output: 865 hp (645 kW) unrestricted; 445 hp (332 kW) with restrictor plate (2007).[33]
Torque: 720 Nm (530 ftlb).
Fuel: 98 octane E15 provided by Sunoco.
Fuel Capacity: 17.75 US gal (67 L) most tracks.
Fuel Delivery: Port Fuel Injection
Fuel Injection type: McLaren
ECU Provider: Freescale Semiconductor
Compression Ratio: 12:1.
Aspiration: Naturally aspirated.


My abacus reads 147 hp per liter from a Nascar engine.

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Old 03-18-2013, 04:40 PM   #2395
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Yada, yada, yada..........I might be in an assisted living facilty before this bike makes it's debut......if it ever does.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:50 PM   #2396
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One MOTUS to lead them all
One POTUS to bless them
One SCROTUS to tease them all
and in the darkness SMOTUS them
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:42 PM   #2397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cakeeater View Post
Since there's no actual Motus engine yet in the wild....:(

Here's some NASCAR data from the always accurate Wikipedia:

Power Output: 865 hp (645 kW) unrestricted; 445 hp (332 kW) with restrictor plate

My abacus reads 147 hp per liter from a Nascar engine.

Cakeeater

Wow, I didn't know that hp dropped by HALF on the plate tracks.
Shows the importance of aerodynamics if anything.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:11 PM   #2398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worroll View Post
Drag bike? I thought of my ZX as more of a daily driver/tourer.
It's funny how opinions get formed. If you look at the specs on the 2 bikes they're not as far off as the hype makes them out to be.

http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/mst-01.html

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/pro...id=711&scid=24

The obvious difference is the ZX14 weights about 50lb more than the claimed weight of the Motus. Dump the Enterprise sized exhaust on the ZX and install Akra pipes like are shown on the Motus and the difference is probably under 30lb. The Motus chassis doesn't appear anymore sporty from the numbers and I doubt there's any question which bike will have more performance.

Amazing what you can do to form opinions with enough press coverage, a slick enough website, and no bikes to prove or disprove anything...
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:19 PM   #2399
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I'd be amazed if the Motus comes in near 500 lbs.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:55 AM   #2400
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What Buell made an actual 102 hp. from a 1200.and I don't count sales brochures.
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