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Old 01-26-2010, 11:24 PM   #91
Motovista
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Quote:
Originally Posted by approachbears
People here on the Battlescooter section are reporting deals for very similar new scoots, like the SYM Fiddle 125, for $1600. Even the brick and mortar Chinese scooter shops in my town--not drop shipper/Ebay company, a place with an actual repair dept--are advertising new "Venice" 150's for $999.

This seems to be a tough time to get a whole new product going.
It's brutal. The dealership I used to manage went from 100+ units a month to 4-6. And that's a store selling three of the four Japanese lines. I put Kymco into two stores and then picked up SYM when Kymco thought they were the next incarnation of Honda and became impossible to deal with. SYM is not a bad product, but it's not a great product either, and like Kymco, they came over with a good reputation and then started shipping rebadged chinese crap. I've seen Symplys (which can be bought a lot cheaper as an Eton sport, btw) and Fiddle 2s shred belts and flatten rollers at less than 1000 miles. The electrical problems are a never ending source of frustration, and the pricing structure seems to be built around the dream of $5 gasoline and free and easy consumer credit.

The reason this new scooter will likely fail is not because the distributor has no idea how to reach the consumer, and hasn't successfully marketed their lines in the past, even though they had some pretty good product, but that they don't have the ability to line up consumer level financing. If you can't offer your dealer network the ability to offer financing to potential customers, you aren't going to move any units in this market, after you've sold the ten guys following this thread who think this is a really neat scooter.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:45 AM   #92
OLD SCOOTER REP
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its all about quality

no question there are servicable gy6-150ccs out there under $1000 retail but they probably dont have : 2 year warrantys/ Delphi electronic fuel injection / tried and true testing / parts support / local ( dealer) people support /product liability insurance. I get calls every day from people who bought "a good deal " scooter on the net that is a box of rocks and does not run and there is no one to help them. The best I can tell them is "good luck with that " . Lots of people learn this lesson the hard way
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:04 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhandmoto
I owned an '08 Vespa GTS 250ie, and it was an extremely fine bike. I hated to let it go, but they're too expensive for what you get, and way too costly to repair when bodywork takes a hit.
It still is.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:38 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarvis
It still is.
Oh, go ahead and rub it in, fella...you gettin' any miles on that thing?
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:37 PM   #95
approachbears
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD SCOOTER REP
no question there are servicable gy6-150ccs out there under $1000 retail but they probably dont have : 2 year warrantys/ Delphi electronic fuel injection / tried and true testing / parts support / local ( dealer) people support /product liability insurance. I get calls every day from people who bought "a good deal " scooter on the net that is a box of rocks and does not run and there is no one to help them. The best I can tell them is "good luck with that " . Lots of people learn this lesson the hard way
The real sign of a bad market for scooters is that one of the brick and mortar Chinese scooter dealers near me--one who does local repairs, actually honors his 1 year warranty and has been in business for a couple--years is having to mark down his generic 150cc stock to $999.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:58 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by approachbears
The real sign of a bad market for scooters is that one of the brick and mortar Chinese scooter dealers near me--one who does local repairs, actually honors his 1 year warranty and has been in business for a couple--years is having to mark down his generic 150cc stock to $999.
If he is buying right he is still making 30% ; thats a good margin . A 150 only costs $40-$100 more than a 50 cc at most of the cheap factories . typicaly a Taiwan factory or a high quality Chinese factory will be 100-300% more at cost and a 50cc will last 12,000 miles a 150cc 50,000+ ; the cheapies are 1,200- 3,000 miles MAYBE and they are ready for the scrapman.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:23 PM   #97
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Another CLASSIC asian bodge job..




"better than a Vespa??" "no snob appeal" Of course not, buy hey, at least they didn't make them look like vespas or needed to photo-shop them in Italy or anything desperate like that

Hey! why isn't the "pepto" one in Italy?? WTF??
aLEXm
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:25 PM   #98
approachbears
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD SCOOTER REP
If he is buying right he is still making 30% ; thats a good margin . A 150 only costs $40-$100 more than a 50 cc at most of the cheap factories . typicaly a Taiwan factory or a high quality Chinese factory will be 100-300% more at cost and a 50cc will last 12,000 miles a 150cc 50,000+ ; the cheapies are 1,200- 3,000 miles MAYBE and they are ready for the scrapman.
Some of that seems to make sense as he's selling his 50cc scooters for just 100 bucks less than his bottom of the line 150cc scooter. Its the difference between moto endorsement and not rather than the difference in engine size that determines things where I live.

But I'm not entirely sure how you got to the 30% margin number in your calculations.
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:04 PM   #99
OLD SCOOTER REP
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simple math /go do your own test

a vespa LXV 150 is non EFI with a 1 year warranty at an msrp of $5199
a LaVita 150 is EFI with a 2 year warranty at $2499 msrp ...

DOUBLE THE WARRANTY 1/2 THE PRICE .. Hmmmmm..... 2 for the price of 1 not a bad deal in todays economy

call it as you see it but I have driven it and I believe when the industry mags road test article this its the silver bullet of the year ...

a great value in todays world.. all I am going to say...the road test reports will tell the rest
IMHO the LaVita is a great classic pakage with modern updates at a reasonable price created and backed by a company of who cares about what they build and sell . . Go ride one and judge for your self
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:35 PM   #100
Mandello
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD SCOOTER REP
a vespa LXV 150 is non EFI with a 1 year warranty at an msrp of $5199
a LaVita 150 is EFI with a 2 year warranty at $2499 msrp ...
pssstttt buddy, not sure if you've noticed, but everything chinese is waaaaaaay cheaper than the real thing, there's a reason for that... and another thing, the italian-named-chinese-vespa-wannabe is priced about $1500 too high.

AlexM
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:51 PM   #101
kingdm54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandello
pssstttt buddy, not sure if you've noticed, but everything chinese is waaaaaaay cheaper than the real thing, there's a reason for that... and another thing, the italian-named-chinese-vespa-wannabe is priced about $1500 too high.

AlexM
I'm not defending OSR or the product here but what makes you such an expert?? Just asking?
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:17 PM   #102
brockster
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I'd say that this thread is about ready to be moved to the Scooter Sales Schmooz thread.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:23 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brockster
I'd say that this thread is about ready to be moved to the Scooter Sales Schmooz thread.
+1, only IMO it should have been there on 10.28.2009
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:35 PM   #104
kingdm54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brockster
I'd say that this thread is about ready to be moved to the Scooter Sales Schmooz thread.
True true...
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:39 PM   #105
Mandello
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdm54
I'm not defending OSR or the product here but what makes you such an expert?? Just asking?
I've been riding and dealing with italian scooters for over 30 years, so much so that I opened a (now well-known) vintage scooter-restoration shop, since 1999. We've laughed plenty of guys out of the shop coming in with bent rims from trying to change tires on their chinese junk.

You don't have to be an expert to know chinese vehicles are pure crap, name me one 10-year-old chinese scooter that's worth anything? A 30-year-old Vespa in good condition is still worth what it sold for new, older ones go for much more.

You going to tell me a two-bit operation in china shoe-horning new engines into old vespa frames is better than the real thing? Seriously?

AlexM
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