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Old 11-25-2009, 06:24 PM   #121
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
I don't think that's actually the case. I'm pretty sure there's something lost in the translation. Dropping the sliders 2.5"--if it's even possible at all--would really increase the potential for bending.

If I had to guess, I'd say the sliders are "stock" zokes, but from a bike with more travel, like the 610.
Pretty nice speculation, bxr. But for now let's go with what the Bitubo engineers say. After all, they built 'em!

Besides, it's easy to see that they started out with stock F800GS forks. They're just blueish colored now because of the coating they applied.

Also, it's speculation at this point how they actually achieved 60mm more travel. All I'm seeing them say is that there's more travel, not more height. There's a big difference between travel and ride height. And it's speculation to say that dropping the sliders 60mm (which they didn't actually say they did) would weaken anything.

The Griz screwed with this post 11-25-2009 at 06:36 PM
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:09 PM   #122
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I stick by what he said originally (until he or someone who knows says otherwise ), that these are not the stock forks. Why would they coat the uppers of the forks? There are quite a few Marzocchi Shiver 45 forks so . . .

Besides, he's referring to coating the sliders, not the uppers of the forks:

Quote:
pumping rods with surface coating against friction
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:23 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS
I stick by what he said originally (until he or someone who knows says otherwise ), that these are not the stock forks. Why would they coat the uppers of the forks? There are quite a few Marzocchi Shiver 45 forks so . . .

Besides, he's referring to coating the sliders, not the uppers of the forks:
Bitubo knows otherwise! If we won't believe them, then who will we believe?? Keep in mind that all this text we're quoting is from Bitubo, not Stefano. All Stefano has said is " these are superforks!". That could mean anything! Also, the riders themselves sometimes don't even know what was actually done to their race bikes. And again, this is a Twalcom/Bitubo built bike.

I personally take to heart what Bitubo says since they built it: "we always start with the stock Marzocchi forks."

Also, yes, I know that the coating that they are referring to in the text is on the sliders. But they've obviously coated or anodized the fork tubes too. Could be done for many reasons: protection. Looks. Etc.

To each his own... I again am going with what Bitubo says. They built the kit.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:34 PM   #124
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I've been told the tubes are stock -- the internals have been heavily modified and they may show up as a high end 'kit' or product from Bitubo. The bike, in essence, is a development mule for Bitubo and Twalcom. The high fender, and fork protectors are being evaluated for production, but as of yet there are no plans to make them generally available.

I don't think these have been posted yet:



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Old 11-25-2009, 09:20 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Pretty nice speculation, bxr.
Of course it is...but that doesn't change the fact that there still missing pieces of the puzzle. I'm sure when more complete information is transferred we'll understand how they dealt with the bending (leaky seal and structural integrity) problem if they are indeed using the stock sliders.

And FYI, the ONLY way to get more travel out of the stock parts is to make the sliders stick out the stanchions 60mm more at full extension. Think about it!

I'm betting that--if they're actually "using" the stock lowers at all--they're just using the lower fitting (for the axle) and mating that to a new, longer tube that they made. So....yeah, I guess you could call that 'heavily modified stock parts'...
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:30 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Bitubo knows otherwise! If we won't believe them, then who will we believe?? Keep in mind that all this text we're quoting is from Bitubo, not Stefano. All Stefano has said is " these are superforks!". That could mean anything! Also, the riders themselves sometimes don't even know what was actually done to their race bikes. And again, this is a Twalcom/Bitubo built bike.

I personally take to heart what Bitubo says since they built it: "we always start with the stock Marzocchi forks."
It's fun trying to figure this out before Stefano, or someone else who knows, finally clarifies this for us.

BUT, they did not say "we always start with the stock Marzocchi forks." They said,

Quote:
The fork is always the stock Marzocchi Shiver 45 but with increased end-stoke
Now I know that since I'm a lawyer I tend to read exactly what people say into what they mean. BUT, he said "stock Marzocchi Shiver 45." There is more than one version of the Marzocchi Shiver 45. The way you quoted them assumes they used the stock F800GS version of the Shiver 45. However . . .

Our stock fork, with the two tubes we have, cannot be modified to have 60mm more travel than it does. I don't see how that's possible. Now if you took another stock Marzocchi Shiver 45 off a bike that had 60mm more travel and put it on our bikes . . . I think that's why the upper tubes are a different color.

I could very well be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, that's just my interpretation of what I've read.


NOW, if I could get me a set of those super forks . . . I might have to sell a kidney to get me a set!!
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:33 AM   #127
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Gents Bitubo

If you want the Bitubo Engineers to create rebound and compression dampening for the F800GS you send your forks to them. We all know clearly BMW have made a major flaw not having decent dampening or we wouldn't be sitting here delving into this topic so much. Also the fact your looking for this valving is good as the bike requires it if you want to ride it to anywhere of what its limit really is . When you have 300kg at 160klms on dirt things bend no matter what it is the ride height alterations are to limit squating and keep the smoothness in the action hence the addition normally top part of the stroke once the bike is actually in this speed range. Now if you want to ride at these speeds at a competetive level its the way to go. The valving is there I hope BMW engineers pick up and fix the issue in factory at least thank god Twalcom are developing products of this High Performance nature as its definately a step up above anything else. Ride Height adjustments to the front end are required go ride your bike in standard fork spec and hit a washout and hopefully you have and you'll know the feeling isn't positive in the front end and this is why this product exists. This bike needs you to throw the front end into things so more travel benefits this riding technique.

BMW HAVE recalled F800 GS in Australia due to safety issue. Will update soon.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:45 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedygonzalez
We all know clearly BMW have made a major flaw not having decent dampening or we wouldn't be sitting here delving into this topic so much.
I'm the first to jump on the 'the stock suspension is crap' wagon, but practically EVERY enthusiast group complains about their suspension to one degree or another. In my internetz experience this is really no different...other than perhaps more total posts due to the overall more shallow knowledge base of BMW owners.

I'd like to hear about this recall in Oz. Adding it to your post implies something damping related.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:18 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedygonzalez
BMW HAVE recalled F800 GS in Australia due to safety issue. Will update soon.
And this would be??
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:31 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
I'm the first to jump on the 'the stock suspension is crap' wagon, but practically EVERY enthusiast group complains about their suspension to one degree or another. In my internetz experience this is really no different...
Good point. I think myself and others expected a suspension upgrade would probably be in order before the bike was even ridden. However I think a lot of riders (myself) assumed that we could simply swap out the valving in the forks like most any other cartridge fork out there....and that's not an option,which increased the complaint factor tenfold.
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:07 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Dave
I think a lot of riders (myself) assumed that we could simply swap out the valving in the forks like most any other cartridge fork out there...
Agreed. I was in the same boat--I figured a couple bucks in shims and a few weekends of experimentation would be enough for me. Lack of easy internal adjustment is probably the biggest complaint I have.
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Old 11-26-2009, 01:29 PM   #132
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You may be onto something here, Yeti. Look at the color of the forks on the Twalcom/Bitubo F800GS:



Now look at the color of the aftermarket Marzocchi Shiver 45's:



Look to be the same color as each other. At least a shred of proof that Bitubo/Twalcom are using aftermarket Marzocchi Shiver 45 fork tubes at least, not the stock Marzocchi F800GS forks (which aren't a Shiver 45 btw. They're made by Marzocchi, but not Shivers. Might be based off of the Shiver design, but not Shivers).

Or maybe Bitubo/Twalcom are using a hybrid of both the aftermarket Marzocchi Shiver 45 and the stock F800GS Marzocchi forks?

We'll never know until some one at Bitubo/Twalcom clarifies.

The Griz screwed with this post 11-26-2009 at 01:50 PM
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:55 PM   #133
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Which is why I PM'd that saxpower guy, wish he'd respond.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:59 PM   #134
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I'm working on getting an official statement. I should hear back tomorrow.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone - at least for the next minute on the US east coast. :)
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:44 PM   #135
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I'll hazard a guess and say they are stock, but not on the F800GS... The stock G450X forks perhaps?? I think theyre about 70mm more travel than the F800GS... that and they are using the G450X 'brake pump'. Enough guessing for me, I'll wait for the official statement.
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