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Old 11-30-2009, 08:02 AM   #31
jackd
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No I'm not - I haven't pulled it apart yet. The pump o-ring was changed previously and was dry around the cover last time I had it apart.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:27 PM   #32
pommie john OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackd
So an Australian guy talks to his fitter in England for tech support? I'll have to believe what he says because I'm from the Commonwealth too!

Seriously, thanks for that titbit of info about finishes. I don't want to play around with my guide ring anymore and take more material off of it - a new one it will be. I wish you better luck than I have had on this one. I just posted a query on GSpost about rear seal installations and as per the 1150 manual, it says to put the seal in wet. Ask your tech what he thinks about this.

LOL. I built the bike in England and he did the engine so I always refer back to him.

His instructions to me were: Manipulate the lip to soften it BUT do it while it's still in its bag...don't even get skin grease on the lip.
Then push it over the ring and leave it on the bench for half an hour or so.
When fitting it to the case, DON'T oil it but use a little tyre fitters soap around the outside to help it slip in. Tyre soap dries out soon enough.
On mine the seal fits right back into the recess so you can knock it in with a bit of wood.

The oiling procedure was for the old style seals apparently.
This is pretty much what snowbum says too. Except he reccomends using oil around the outside to help it slip in.

Personally, I can't understand why a simple thing like an oil seal should need all this messing around. If it's so hit and miss to get it to work, they need to redesign it so it's simpler.
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:04 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pommie john
This is a main seal question with a difference.






John
Looks like a rip/hole in the white lip of the seal at the 9 o'clock position.

Will the guide ring only fit in one way ? You could reverse the installation and maybe have a fresh surface for the seal to run on.


Mike
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The good thing is, your damn motor can't read. If it says oil on the container, it's pretty much OK to dump in there.... ED.
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:31 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogswell
Looks like a rip/hole in the white lip of the seal at the 9 o'clock position. Will the guide ring only fit in one way ? You could reverse the installation and maybe have a fresh surface for the seal to run on.

Mike
Mike, you're somehow seeing an optical illusion . . . there's no seal in the photo.

The guide ring will only fit one way - it's like a shallow cup.

:>)
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:58 PM   #35
jackd
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Oh Boy! Now I'm hearing that you can't even get skin oil on the lip and to work/shape it while it's still in the bag. You are going to put me in the nut house if you keep this up. We use gloves and never touch the surface of carbon type seals on gas turbines for fear of ruining them (on million dollar aircraft engines) but I've never heard it be the case in bike engines.

I agree that this is a seemingly overly complex under-performing bit of engineering by BMW, but it seems that many with no real knowledge have performed this task without a care or concern and achieved great success. Makes me feel like a moron. If I succeed at my seal replacement, I will notify you privately - the thought of airing my failures here is too embarassing.
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Old 11-30-2009, 05:29 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackd
Oh Boy! Now I'm hearing that you can't even get skin oil on the lip and to work/shape it while it's still in the bag. You are going to put me in the nut house if you keep this up. We use gloves and never touch the surface of carbon type seals on gas turbines for fear of ruining them (on million dollar aircraft engines) but I've never heard it be the case in bike engines.

I agree that this is a seemingly overly complex under-performing bit of engineering by BMW, but it seems that many with no real knowledge have performed this task without a care or concern and achieved great success. Makes me feel like a moron. If I succeed at my seal replacement, I will notify you privately - the thought of airing my failures here is too embarassing.
You have now reached the third stage of Airhead ownership: It's my bike and I'll do what I want to it. It's quite a relief to quit worrrying and ride.
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Old 11-30-2009, 05:35 PM   #37
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What'd I tell you about the rear main seal controversy???
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Old 11-30-2009, 05:41 PM   #38
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You hit the nail on the head Randy. I actually arrived at that stage around a year and a half ago. It's a nice feeling - warm and fuzzy. I just can't stand the ribbing from the lazy bastards who own new Harley Fergusons at my workplace who constantly ridicule me for my setbacks.
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Old 11-30-2009, 05:53 PM   #39
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Aerostich used to sell these great plastic "fake oil puddle" items in their catalog. Right after rebuilding my 93 Ducati 900SS a friend tossed one under my bike one day in my garage as I was suiting up to go for a ride. He got me really good and I really flipped out thinking I had done something wrong with the motor.

Why not just get one for yourself and toss it under your own airhead? Get it over with. Let the Harley guys see it and all.

I'm almost at the stage you're at. If my R100GS doesn't leave a little stain on the garage floor from the pushrod seals, it means it doesn't love me any more.

T.
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:22 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackd
You hit the nail on the head Randy. I actually arrived at that stage around a year and a half ago. It's a nice feeling - warm and fuzzy. I just can't stand the ribbing from the lazy bastards who own new Harley Fergusons at my workplace who constantly ridicule me for my setbacks.
A lady I work with has an FZ1. She was amazed when I told her I reringed my GS in an afternoon. A buddy sold his Ducati after discovering the first step in setting the valves is "remove the engine." Everybody thinks Airheads are funny until they see current shop rates. Setbacks are for other people's wallets. We have investment opportunities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infracaninophile
Aerostich used to sell these great plastic "fake oil puddle" items in their catalog.
Spendthrift. Just keep some of your used oil in a squirt bottle.
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:04 PM   #41
jackd
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I think a little payback might be in order for the laziest fat slob of the bunch. Thanks for the idea. If this stays with me, I plan on placing a little bit of oil under his Road King when he starts riding it next spring.

Now back to my Beemer.....
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Old 12-01-2009, 05:09 AM   #42
Cogswell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Headroom
Mike, you're somehow seeing an optical illusion . . . there's no seal in the photo.

The guide ring will only fit one way - it's like a shallow cup.

:>)
Guess I better get my eyes checked soon.


Mike
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The good thing is, your damn motor can't read. If it says oil on the container, it's pretty much OK to dump in there.... ED.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:12 PM   #43
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OK, so I've installed the new seal, and run it up with the gearbox off ( just the flywheel/clutch holder whatever you want to call it on the crank) and it seems OK so far. I ran it for about ten minutes until the oil got to 80 C. I'm hoping that if I'd damaged the lip on installation it would be leaking by now.

So it's off to Phillip Island in January to see how it all works.
When I've painted the new fairing I'll post a photo.

I'd have to say I agree with jackd that it seems a very complicated installation job for what should be a simple seal.


Here's hoping it stays dry in there.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:00 AM   #44
Wirespokes
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I seem to recall that it's necessary to get this seal from the dealer since bearing supplys or VW or the BMW car dealer don't have the correct one. It'll look right and fit, but the little pattern lines that contact the sealing surface will go the wrong direction. You're forced to get the expensive stuff at the dealer in this case.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:27 PM   #45
jackd
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I wish you luck on your seal installation. So did you do the whole nine yards - form it in the bag, not touch the lip with human hands? I will also give it a run up with the transmission not installed - which should be interesting. Maybe the gods will smile on my mechanical skills again in regards to the GS - I'm due.

I also used an aftermarket seal which a local repair shop (which specializes in airhead BMWs) sold for my first attempt. It was of German manufacture but didn't have the BMW markings on it. My guess was that it was from the same seal manufacturer that BMW sources from but was their aftermarket product. I'm sourcing from BMW now.
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