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Old 03-01-2014, 08:52 AM   #4426
meat popsicle
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Get me all excited, and then shoot me down... bastages! Now I gots to read the damn report to get the actual details; here:

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...h_cover508.pdf

Page 33 has "travel and transportation" decisions; open routes list is on page 96. Looks like a little more than 50 miles would be open.

It looks like this goes into effect in March, depending on the county board of supervisor's meeting. I think having to get a permit to use a county road, with an annual permit limit is absurd, even if I only wish I could go there 5x a year.

Open Routes Map from above linked report:
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:40 AM   #4427
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The county roads are our camel's nose in the tent ...

I just can't understand the BLM's attempting to promulgate the "transportation decisions" in the linked report without having resolved the county roads issue.

The guys on SBR are saying the county is absolutely against giving the BLM those roads, and there seems to be no way the permit system can function unless the BLM can close that access ... seems like the report and permit system is only going to "re-open" just what used to be county roads ...

There is supposed to be real resentment on the part of county government against the BLM over the ongoing Clear Creek closure ...

In fact, there is talk of the county taking the step of allowing OHV travel on the county roads within Clear Creek, which would pretty much gut BLM enforcement of the closure ...

We'll see ... allowing OHVs on Clear Creek Road would be a stick-in-the-eye to the BLM, ha.

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Old 03-01-2014, 10:59 AM   #4428
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The news articles said this would grant us access to CCMA areas outside of the Red Zone made unreachable by the closure: T171 and adjacent routes are listed as OPEN - and they are not county roads!

but I don't see that reflected in the map presented unless someone will open access through the old Los Gatos Creek Park?



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Old 03-01-2014, 11:12 AM   #4429
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At this point, we need to support the San Benito Board of Supervisors in keeping county routes open. The hearing is coming up on 3/4/14 (Item #10).

Send an e-mail to: supervisors@cosb.us

Asking to keep county road routes open WITHOUT gates, combo locks, fees, or permits for access or use.

The part about requiring permits (and fees for permits) to use a county road is what I find most outrageous.

Limited thinking on the BLM's part. If the idea was solely to limit exposure, they just as easily could have gone with a self-service, no-fee permit kiosk where you fill out a piece of paper with your name acknowledging risk and accepting it. Carry that with you and leave a carbon in the box. Then they have their documentation/permit and release of liability. Easy, like many back-country permit stations throughout federal lands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle View Post
Get me all excited, and then shoot me down... bastages! Now I gots to read the damn report to get the actual details; here:

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...h_cover508.pdf

Page 33 has "travel and transportation" decisions; open routes list is on page 96. Looks like a little more than 50 miles would be open.

It looks like this goes into effect in March, depending on the county board of supervisor's meeting. I think having to get a permit to use a county road, with an annual permit limit is absurd, even if I only wish I could go there 5x a year.

Open Routes Map from above linked report:
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:56 PM   #4430
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Come to the meeting on the 4th in Hollister. I am going, we need a large number of people there to show our support. Talking among ourselves here on the forum doesn't do anything to help keep CC open, just get you pissed off.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:53 PM   #4431
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Couldn't the county authorities order any county roads be kept open and enforce that action via the county Sheriff? Wasn't this what was done in El Dorado? Or am I getting Forest Service confused with BLM? On the other hand hasn't Arizona told the Feds to shove it on some local issues as they had done using Sheriff Joe Arpaio?

(On a side note, non- political rant: States rights/limited federal government keeps going up on my appreciation meter every day). No comment needed here. Move along.
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:21 AM   #4432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3r3r View Post
At this point, we need to support the San Benito Board of Supervisors in keeping county routes open. The hearing is coming up on 3/4/14 (Item #10).

Send an e-mail to: supervisors@cosb.us

Asking to keep county road routes open WITHOUT gates, combo locks, fees, or permits for access or use.

The part about requiring permits (and fees for permits) to use a county road is what I find most outrageous.

Limited thinking on the BLM's part. If the idea was solely to limit exposure, they just as easily could have gone with a self-service, no-fee permit kiosk where you fill out a piece of paper with your name acknowledging risk and accepting it. Carry that with you and leave a carbon in the box. Then they have their documentation/permit and release of liability. Easy, like many back-country permit stations throughout federal lands.
Thanks for the links and options. And good thoughts. I can't make a 0900 meeting on Tuesday; got work. Here's my thoughts:

Make sure you have the story straight. Don't say the BLM is only opening the county roads, because they will counter with the fact they are not and your point will be lost. Note that they are only opening country roads and a very small section of the trail network that is outside of the Red Zone. Percentages are good for this (if there were 400mi of trails prior to the closure, and they are only opening 50 of them, that's merely 1/8th or 13%. The ROD says (based on the independent review of exposure risks) that limited use is allowable - why are they not opening up more?

I agree, a key point is forcing county road users to obtain a permit, pay money and/or their own time to obtain permission to use a county road. That is not acceptable. Now if the BLM wants to enact that for the trail system beyond the county roads - fine, but your recommendation that there may be better ways to do that is something the county board might want to adopt as a recommendation to the BLM.

You need to stay calm and be respectful.
Express your opinions and your frustration/disappointment/anger in a constrained way. A board of supervisors is an elected body - they have to be careful, and being disrespectful or otherwise interruptive in the meeting will be a way for them to dismiss your position.

Hope that helps and good luck.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:05 PM   #4433
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Quote:
... According to Don Amador, BRC, the county roads may be in trouble. According to a ruling by the 9th circuit court of appeals, the entity that governs the area that the roads go through has final say on the use of the roads, even if that entity has turned over the management of the roads to another entity. Think of it like your vehicle's pink slip. There is a legal owner and a registered owner.
The Central District of California BLM had a couple of management folks there and the intention is to gate and lock the roads going into the ACEC. When you apply for an entry permit, you will be given the combination to the locks.
From a post by Brewster on SBR ...

We're planning on riding down around Mercey Hot Springs on April 6 ... Maybe I'll try to see what Clear Creek road looks like from the New Idria side ... don't remember where the gate is on that side ...?

see you around the campfire,
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:37 PM   #4434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFMCjohn View Post
From a post by Brewster on SBR ...

We're planning on riding down around Mercey Hot Springs on April 6 ... Maybe I'll try to see what Clear Creek road looks like from the New Idria side ... don't remember where the gate is on that side ...?

see you around the campfire,
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I've ridden through CC a couple times from the New Idria side since the "closing" and never saw a gate?
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:22 AM   #4435
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Couldn't the county authorities order any county roads be kept open and enforce that action via the county Sheriff? Wasn't this what was done in El Dorado? Or am I getting Forest Service confused with BLM? On the other hand hasn't Arizona told the Feds to shove it on some local issues as they had done using Sheriff Joe Arpaio?

(On a side note, non- political rant: States rights/limited federal government keeps going up on my appreciation meter every day). No comment needed here. Move along.
Guess I'll answer my own question-
From post on referenced link by grabast:
..."The County also has authority to remove any road obstructions which might be installed, and the Sheriff has authority to arrest anyone purposely obstructing or damaging a county road."
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:59 AM   #4436
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I've ridden through CC a couple times from the New Idria side since the "closing" and never saw a gate?
There was no gate on that side; just a sign that says the road is not maintained beyond this point.

Be prepared for an Intermediate jeep trail, as erosion has made the climb up from New Idria fun.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:03 AM   #4437
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There was no gate on that side; just a sign that says the road is not maintained beyond this point.

Be prepared for an Intermediate jeep trail, as erosion has made the climb up from New Idria fun.
I've done it fully loaded on the pig (with dirt tires) and fully UNloaded on the pig with street tires and when I was loaded it was REALLY washed out. Last time (summer of '12 I think) it wasn't that bad. I got lost pretty well in the "park" and had one bad mud bog, but otherwise just the normal gravel stuff.

That said, you want me to bring the little bike down with the Jeep and we hit it in a few weeks? I can bring the Jeep as a recovery vehicle if needed...
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:57 AM   #4438
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Here's the gate answer:

Quote:
New Idria Road would end just past the Idria Dam Private Property where new Idria Road (R001) heads up to Clear Creek Canyon Road where a gate already exists leaving one at the base with one more gate at the top of New Idria Road. Mexican Lake Road would be in need of a new gate as well as T153 and T154 at the New Idria Dam. All that effort would restrict 4 wheels access, however the gates would have zero effect to 2 wheel traffic with exception to the Coalinga Road access into the CCMA.
From a post by ApexMolester on SBR ... god bless SBR!

So, it sounds like the gate at the pond up beyond the intermediate hill climb above New Idria ... guess that's the start of the "area of critical environmental concern (ACEC)" ...?

Here is a really fascinating document regarding the history of Clear Creek Road:
http://www.3rocks.org/ccra/Clear_Creek_Road.pdf

It is an 83 page PDF with lots of cool maps n such ... from a post by Grabast on SBR ...

Looks like a document prepared to request some sort of historic landmark designation ... someone spent countless hours researching the history back to the 1800s ... there's another PDF for Mexican Lake Road, too ...

see you around the campfire,
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:41 PM   #4439
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Guys, what bay area shop do you recommend for installing a new gas tank on a Kawasaki KLX250S?

Thanks!!

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Old 03-03-2014, 12:59 PM   #4440
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Guys, what bay area shop do you recommend for installing a new gas tank on a Kawasaki KLX250S?

Thanks!!

Mark
Your location might help with the answer
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