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Old 04-26-2010, 11:47 AM   #16
JoelWisman
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I agree with your post above Griz, but will add a few things.

Yes the F800GS will compensate for a more free intake and exhaust to a point. It does have an oxygen sensor and a learning fuel map.

Base idle and closed throttle decel are NOT compensated by the F800GS but rather on a fixed fuel map.

All of them pop some on decel and this is much louder with aftermarket exhausts at least partially because the exhaust noises are usually much less muffled.


If power is all that one cares about then lambda (14.7 : 1 by mass) is not what you are looking for, you are looking for a somewhat fuel rich mixture.

This will be helpful to exhaust valves, tend to foul spark plugs, suck from a hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide emissions standpoint, destroy the cat, and reduce fuel economy, but will increase HP slightly
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:04 PM   #17
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman
I agree with your post above Griz, but will add a few things.

Yes the F800GS will compensate for a more free intake and exhaust to a point. It does have an oxygen sensor and a learning fuel map.

Base idle and closed throttle decel are NOT compensated by the F800GS but rather on a fixed fuel map.

All of them pop some on decel and this is much louder with aftermarket exhausts at least partially because the exhaust noises are usually much less muffled.
Good to know Joel! Thank you!


Quote:
If power is all that one cares about then lambda (14.7 : 1 by mass) is not what you are looking for, you are looking for a somewhat fuel rich mixture.

This will be helpful to exhaust valves, tend to foul spark plugs, suck from a hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide emissions standpoint, destroy the cat, and reduce fuel economy, but will increase HP slightly
Exactly!! Me? I'm looking for 14.7:1.
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:49 PM   #18
Gangplank
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Seems pretty easy to me:
http://www.powercommander.com/powerc...dl=213&yr=2009
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:41 PM   #19
Bucko
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What this bikes needs for higher speed, comfy freeway cruising is a taller six gear, not more BHP. It does just fine in that department. Anyone that doesn't think so should ride a KLR for a couple years

The only thing I'd improve is the jerkiness just off idle, but the bike has enough torque to use second gear in many slow situations, so even that doesn't bother me too much.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucko
What this bikes needs for higher speed, comfy freeway cruising is a taller six gear, not more BHP. It does just fine in that department. Anyone that doesn't think so should ride a KLR for a couple years

The only thing I'd improve is the jerkiness just off idle, but the bike has enough torque to use second gear in many slow situations, so even that doesn't bother me too much.

Ever try a PC? On my track bike it's the schitz!
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:32 AM   #21
mousitsas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Good to know Joel! Thank you!



Exactly!! Me? I'm looking for 14.7:1.
If you have an AFR 14.7:1 up on top, then you are heading for a very short engine life. Better try 13:1 .
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:56 PM   #22
zumohamr
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A pipe and air filter would give these 800s some much needed sound. My old TL1000s was unrideable until i used a fuel controller from yoshimura. No piggyback junk like a fuel commander. Plug it in and adjust fuel settings for each individual cylinder. (90V, a real engine) Take for a ride and repeat until bike is correct. it takes awhile but worth it. Someone could surely make something similar for these BMWs.
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:45 PM   #23
LukasM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mousitsas
If you have an AFR 14.7:1 up on top, then you are heading for a very short engine life. Better try 13:1 .
+1.

People that think that 14.7 is optimal for anything other than emissions are clearly clueless about engine tuning.
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:12 PM   #24
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
+1.

People that think that 14.7 is optimal for anything other than emissions are clearly clueless about engine tuning.
Well, soooooorrry, there Lukas! I guess I'm just fucking clueless then!! I meant that I gravitate more towards the stoi ratio of 14.7:1. I actually found myself achieving the best results on my KLR's with about 14:1 using a lambda sensor and meter kit (http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php and http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/p...s/g2_gauge.php). I had the exhaust header drilled and a bung welded in for the sensor. It's common knowledge that, of course, stoi 14.7:1 is hardly achievable on any engine that constantly changes RPM and load, like a motorcycle or car engine. Now, that said, on a generator motor or something of similar nature that maintains a constant RPM and load? Hell yeah, you can achieve 14.7:1 safely and effectively.

And btw, 14.7:1 is completely safe. In fact, contradicting such a fact would be disagreeing with decades of hard scientific evidence regarding the internal combustion engine! I'm with Joel on this one, guys. Anyone feeling the need go any richer than 14:1 is looking for spark plug fouling, damage to catalytic convertors, a reduction in fuel economy, etc. But, yeah, you will increase HP slightly.
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:13 PM   #25
LukasM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Well, soooooorrry, there Lukas! I guess I'm just fucking clueless then!! I meant that I gravitate more towards the stoi ratio of 14.7:1. I actually found myself achieving the best results on my KLR's with about 13.5:1. Best power and fuel economy. It's common knowledge that, of course, stoi 14.7:1 is hardly achievable on any engine that constantly changes RPM and load.
No offense Griz, but yes, it would appear that you are clueless. I'm far from an expert myself but what you are saying just doesn't make any sense.

I am not sure why "it is common knowledge that 14.7 is hardly achievable", and also why you would even try to tune for that - unless for emission reason as I mentioned above?

A properly tuned engine will target around 12.6 under full load for max power, and then lean out to about 15.4 under light load to cruise economically. With correctly set up EFI this is entirely achievable.

What did you use to tune your KLR then?
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:19 PM   #26
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
I am not sure why "it is common knowledge that 14.7 is hardly achievable", and also why you would even try to tune for that - unless for emission reason as I mentioned above?
It is hardly achievable for any sustained period of time, due to fuel quality, load, and RPM change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
What did you use to tune your KLR then?
Click on the links in my above post ^

And read this while you're at it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio
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The Griz screwed with this post 04-29-2010 at 09:31 AM Reason: Removed most of the head explody. Kept tuning info.
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:27 PM   #27
itsatdm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman
I agree with your post above Griz, but will add a few things.

Yes the F800GS will compensate for a more free intake and exhaust to a point. It does have an oxygen sensor and a learning fuel map.

Base idle and closed throttle decel are NOT compensated by the F800GS but rather on a fixed fuel map.

All of them pop some on decel and this is much louder with aftermarket exhausts at least partially because the exhaust noises are usually much less muffled.


If power is all that one cares about then lambda (14.7 : 1 by mass) is not what you are looking for, you are looking for a somewhat fuel rich mixture.

This will be helpful to exhaust valves, tend to foul spark plugs, suck from a hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide emissions standpoint, destroy the cat, and reduce fuel economy, but will increase HP slightly
Sounds like this is the reason for the the slight stumble, when slowly trying to ease over things just off idle. If it is, than doesn't sound like there is much that can be done about it.
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:03 PM   #28
LukasM
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Way too much editing of your posts going on Griz... Next time just make a new one instead of changing what you said (optimal results with 13.5 or was it 14.0?) and adding stuff 5 times.

So you tuned your KLR with the G2 gauge then? Did you do it on a dyno? Any graphs?

If you are not very well versed in a topic, maybe you shouldn't always make these absolute statements like "And btw, 14.7:1 is completely safe. In fact, contradicting such a fact would be disagreeing with decades of hard scientific evidence regarding the internal combustion engine!". Keep an open mind man.

Whether 14.7 is completely safe depends on a multitude of factors, for example the compression ratio, fuel octane, ignition timing, induction type, etc. I would like to see you run a high compression drag racing engine or even a low compression one with 20 lbs of boost at your "completely safe" 14.7:1 on standard gas. You'd be picking up your pistons in pieces.

In case of a stock F800GS, this is unlikely to be an issue. But then again, if you were going to reprogram your EFI to compensate for the free flowing exhaust, air filter, etc why not make it optimal instead of just safe? You know, like, rich at full load and lean for cruising? More power and still get better mileage?
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:40 PM   #29
upweekis
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I read somewhere that a guy is making a new throttle roller(gear, whatever the part is on the handlebar grip) that is cammed, so that at less than 1/3 throttle, it moves slower, and then picks up to normal after that. I think that would cure a lot of off-road problems. Of course, I can't find it now...
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:44 PM   #30
johngil
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