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Old 04-29-2010, 08:29 AM   #46
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Wow. Why is it that some folks on this forum like nothing more than to duke it out? Every post I've seen of yours, Booni, is attacking in manner, directly at me, for no reason other than to simply be mean. Why do you get satisfaction out of bringing down others? And Lukas, if you want to have an intelligent conversation about engine tuning, then try to hold back on the attacking remarks, then maybe we'll get somewhere. Don't blame the breakdown of a thread on me when you're the one who is chipping away at it continually with sarcasm and cutting remarks. Of course a thread is going to deteriorate when you take it to JoMamma.

Anyway, let's stop, and get this thread back to it's point: tuning the engine in the F800GS.....
Every single one Griz? A little more thinking on your part before you post, edit, then lie, perhaps?
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:36 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Again with the cutting remarks. Will it ever end?

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten. "


...so probably not.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:42 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
I think you need to look inward on this one Booni, and not just try justify you're need to be mean so that you can feel good about yourself.

You never fail to amuse at least. You can either man up, or just keep doing what you're doing. I'm not the first to have this issue with you, I can see I'm not the last.

Eventually you'll ask yourself, why does this keep happening to me?


Edit for your edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
I think you need to look inward on this one Booni, and not just try justify you're need to be mean so that you can feel good about yourself.

Look, I can do the rolling laughy-face too!!

This one's going to end up in JoMamma due to you guys.
More likely head explody.
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Boon Booni screwed with this post 04-29-2010 at 08:49 AM
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:52 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
These two words explain it all. It's for your amusement. I think you need to realize that it's not me doing anything in particular (other than posting facts and actual engine tuning experience), rather that it's you simply looking for amusement by bringing some one else down, and then trying to justify it so you don't feel bad bad about yourself. It's sad really.

Analyze this thread's post history. You'll see that it's nothing but cutting remark after cutting remark by MR. BOONI and LUKASM.

We'd try to analyze your post history, but it's all been edited.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:00 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Nah, it's sitting there, unedited, waiting to show the truth.....

# of attacking comments in this thread by MR. BOONI:

7

Let's see if we can break the 10 barrier.

I think it's been broken, you're just counting posts, not actual comments contained within those posts.

If not, you'll have to wait, I can't waste my companies dough any more today.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:22 AM   #51
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Is the kindergarten play ground fight over yet?

Feel free to delete your posts and keep this thread on track please.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:31 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
I actually have experience with engine tuning, man. So yes, I will speak about it with absolute conviction. Just because you don't like it or don't agree with it doesn't mean that I'm wrong. What makes you right??? Where's all your proof??? I'm simply stating facts here. You're simply dropping attacking remarks. I don't claim to know everything, but engine tuning is one of them that actually do know quite a bit about. Deal with it.
I did not know that you were questioning any of the information that I posted. Let me know what you need proof or arguments for and I will see what I can do.



In return, I will simply ask you to give the reasoning behind the following statement, since me criticizing it seems to have started the big debate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Exactly!! Me? I'm looking for 14.7:1.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:32 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
Is the kindergarten play ground fight over yet?

Feel free to delete your posts and keep this thread on track please.
Done, thanks Gadget Boy.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:14 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
I did not know that you were questioning any of the information that I posted. Let me know what you need proof or arguments for and I will see what I can do.



In return, I will simply ask you to give the reasoning behind the following statement, since me criticizing it seems to have started the big debate:
14.7:1 is known and has been known for decades to be the perfect air/fuel mixture for gasoline-burning engines. That is why I strive for it. I never said I achieved it or that it is even achievable. In fact, in most engines 14.7:1 is not achievable due to all of the factors that I stated earlier: load, atmospheric conditions like temp and humidity, fuel grade, etc. I think you just read into it a bit too literally as if I was saying I actually am going hit hit 14.7:1 or a have already achieved it. That is the reasoning behind my statement. And it wasn't my statement that sparked the argument, it was the sarcastic, cutting, and attacking remarks you made. But we're past that now, hopefully. I'm not questioning anything you posted. I never was. I'm simply stating fact and my experience with tuning my engines in my KLR650's using a lambda sensor and a air/fuel ratio meter, and how well it worked for me. Both in improving fuel economy and in improving power. And I found that through changing idle mixture, pilot jet, needle jet, needle clip position, and needle sizes I was able to achieve a fairly constant 14:1 AFR throughout the rev range. Of course, the AFR changed a bit on hard acceleration and hard decel, but during smooth acceleration, cruising, and at idle I was able to achieve 14:1, and it worked the best, and it wasn't damaging my engine. In fact, when I opened up the engine and examined it a few thousand miles after tuning, the cylinders, piston heads and valves looked like new (I also ran Motul 7100 synth oil in those bikes so maybe that factored in as well). Getting back to how I achieved those good results:



I adjusted the idle mixture screw at idle until the G2 Gauge read 14:1. Then through riding the bike and running it through the rev range and remember the results in my trusty brain muscle, I adjusted the pilot jet size (off-idle), needle size (1/4 throttle open), clip position (1/2 to 3/4 throttle open), and main jet size (3/4 to full throttle open) until I consistently sat at 14:1 throughout the RPM range . Under hard acceleration it richened up to about 13.2-13.5:1, which is normal, and required for the needed power for acceleration. On decel, of course, it leaned out a bit to about 14.2-14.8:1. All in all, it took me a while, but the results were very good. I ended up changing all of the items listed above many times before I found the right balance with sizes and settings.

These are the tools and resources I used:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/kits.php

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/p...s/g2_gauge.php

http://www.gadgetjq.com/keihin_carb.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio_meter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFR_sensor

The Griz screwed with this post 04-29-2010 at 10:23 AM Reason: Added pics and links.
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:14 AM   #55
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Griz, let it go.. how many reports are you going to send our way..

Use the Ignore feature.. it works well.
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:34 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
Griz, let it go.. how many reports are you going to send our way..

Use the Ignore feature.. it works well.
Ignore engaged. Understood. I was just hoping that if I complied others would follow suit so we could clean up the explody. Oh well.
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:29 PM   #57
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I found this thread because I want to tune my modded KLR on the cheap and re-tune for different elevations and was planning on following Griz' approach, down to the equipment.

What I am not sure about is what ratios I should shoot for as a safe baseline. I can always retune if I want to; reliability is top priority.

Is 14:1 safe across the board, or should I shoot for 13.5:1 off the main jet at WOT? Stock compression and timing and cams, big bore kit and ported valves is all.
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:34 PM   #58
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Following up on this, here is what Patman had to say as he dyno tuned his modded KLR using kit from Cary Aspy (RIP) at Schnitz Racing.

http://www.patmanracing.com/klrdyno.htm



Quote:
All ya need to know for now is that higher on the chart is leaner, and lower is richer, and that the yellow band is where ya wanna be. When ya first open the throttle the mixture shoots way lean, as rpm increases it gets on the needle and starts to come into a better spot, as the rpm increases further you transition onto the main for the duration. We could talk about this all day, but for now, just figure the pilot won't show on this chart cause I didn't start my run until 2000 rpm. The needle is showing leaner than it really is because of the rapid throttle opening. Figure the needle can be read from about 3500 rpm to 4500 rpm then it's the main, though they actually overlap in that area. ( on this chart ) As for the main jets, the green run is the best. The red run is too lean, the blue too rich, the purple close, but still too rich. But as I said I'm not finished yet, the final run #20, shows the needle too lean, the 150 main a bit too rich and since DynoJet doesn't include any pilot jets, I'll have to grab some today and try to fix the bottom end lean issue. Max power is about what it's gonna be though. I'll go back to the 148 main, richen the needle and the pilot and get back with ya.
Doesn't really make much sense as I assume dyno runs are done at WOT so you're not going to be able to tell needle from main...unless he rolled on to WOT as the run progressed.
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:54 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoMind
Doesn't really make much sense as I assume dyno runs are done at WOT so you're not going to be able to tell needle from main...unless he rolled on to WOT as the run progressed.
Perhaps what he means is that those are the components he adjusted to get the changes in mixture on the various dyno runs.

FWIW, it seems that 14:1 is too rich for full throttle runs. Too much risk to the motor. It's probably too lean for a carbed motor at any engine speed as even a CV Carb will never be able to compensate for environmental differences to the extent that FI will.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:00 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni
14:1.....it's probably too lean for a carbed motor at any engine speed as even a CV Carb will never be able to compensate for environmental differences to the extent that FI will.
Very true. I never actually achieved perfect 14.7:1 under all engine loads and environmental conditions. As I tried to explain earlier, my AFR Gauge typically read 13.5:1 or so on hard throttle roll-ons, and 14.5:1 or so on hard decel/engine braking. The settings I achieved worked well.

And Motomind, just FYI, the jetting kit I used was Dynojet brand for KLR650. Just make sure to get the correct one for your year, as Kawasaki changed the jetting for the 2008-present models.
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