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Old 10-10-2012, 03:27 PM   #106
itsatdm
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I am sure you are right. I just compare it to what Poolside is appearing to be doing. Modifying the imput signals to the ECU rather than the output.

Any idea what the result of all this modifying to the F800 in HP or rideabilty? My only gripe is with the off idle fueling.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:48 PM   #107
ebrabaek
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I am sure you are right. I just compare it to what Poolside is appearing to be doing. Modifying the imput signals to the ECU rather than the output.

Any idea what the result of all this modifying to the F800 in HP or rideabilty? My only gripe is with the off idle fueling.
As it is my grip as well.... I think to the tune of 3-5 hp, but when I do mine.... or should I say when Sisneros Speed Works of Denver,CO does mine, I will start on the Economy map first...... I don't think he has worked on BMW's before, but he has plenty experience as engine tuner. His bikes took the title at PPIHC a few years in a row..... Perhaps I could be the Guinna pig, and other could follow along. He currently e-mails maps to his customers, so if we could dial in mine...... it would be an easy user install, as the maps would be close, except for the open exhaust I have/will have.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:57 PM   #108
mousitsas
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Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
Does Auto tune change the values while riding on the bike? or produce a mapping tool to be used later to fine tune.
You do the former while producing the map and when you arrive at a map that no longer changes, you upload it to PCV and disconnect AT

The reason that I think it may matter, is the sensors that dictate which "map", are the position of the throttle, oil temp, air pressure(altitude) and air temp.

The ECU reads electrical current from each sensor, does it computer thingy and sends a signal to the injectors that result in the proper opening time and pressure.

My understanding is, this output is what gets changed by Dynojet. Add a little, lose a little. Correct?
Yes

The maps are really mathmatical logarithms. Don't know much about them either, except they are the product of other numbers multiplied together, usually a square root. If so, they are weighted, depending upon the multiplier.

Here is what I suspect. A perfect tune at sea level will not be perfect at altitude. What I do not know is if those sensors have some hierarchy of importance to the ECU. In other words is air temp more important than air pressure and is weighted more? The stock ECU makes adjustments and the output is the result of all the sensors product.
The altitude change is addressed by the ECU, which does what it has to do, whether you have PCV or not.The stock ECU is also working according to assumptions on altitude anyway. What you sacrifice when you have a PCV is the closed loop functionality. However, you can have two maps to toggle between, a richer for performance and a leaner for economy/altitude

Probably no worse result than fiddling with jetting on a carbed bike, but I am not sure it is as accurate as the stock ECU.
Without a doubt, the best way to remap is to reflash the ecu, but this is no possible to do with bmw as far as I know. In that way you can change everything and still keep the closed loop functionality. Thing is that the closed loop functionality is so crude to begin with (due to the low performance electronics used) that with a good map you don't have anything to loose.
On the other hand, you could theoretically keep the PCV+AT in closed loop at all times, but you may feel a slight hesitation as they autocorrect at a less than ideal speed. The safest approach to do this would be to use PCV+AT only for high throttle inputs with a zero map elsewhere. In any case, AT to function properly requires a very good base map. This base map is produced following many iterations between PCV+AT. Eg, you start with a zero map on the PCV and the AT corrects it after a ride. You then merge the corrected map to the base map and you repeat having got know a better base map, and so on and so forth. At some point, the AT will no longer be correcting the base map. This will be your best base map so far, which you may use on open loop with the AT disnonnected, or on closed loop with the AT online.

mousitsas screwed with this post 10-10-2012 at 10:11 PM
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:23 AM   #109
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Spoke with my tuner yesterday. He mentioned just that.... Instead of two maps.....Which you could do just fine...... He said use the zero map for base..... tweek the off idle, and then ride with the AT off.... Then when you need the power turn on the AT..... I might have to wait until taxes come back as I need to add the headers into the cost.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:26 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
Spoke with my tuner yesterday. He mentioned just that.... Instead of two maps.....Which you could do just fine...... He said use the zero map for base..... tweek the off idle, and then ride with the AT off.... Then when you need the power turn on the AT..... I might have to wait until taxes come back as I need to add the headers into the cost.
Hello!

I don't get this? If you ride with the AT off, how is it supposed to "learn" and make the trims? If you just start it from a zero-map, would'nt it take rather much driving before the AT has optimized for power?

Maybe I just don't understand....

Best regards,
Mats
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:50 AM   #111
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Hello!

I don't get this? If you ride with the AT off, how is it supposed to "learn" and make the trims? If you just start it from a zero-map, would'nt it take rather much driving before the AT has optimized for power?

Maybe I just don't understand....

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Mats
Probably Ebrabaek meant PCV instead of AT.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:02 AM   #112
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Probably Ebrabaek meant PCV instead of AT.
With the at off , and the zero map installed.... It simply follows the stock map.... Less the o2 input... Which is not use much anyway. You can toggle between two maps as well.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:47 AM   #113
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With the at off , and the zero map installed.... It simply follows the stock map.... Less the o2 input... Which is not use much anyway. You can toggle between two maps as well.
Ok, I get it. But when will the AT learn and develop it's trims? Don't they get lost if you shut it down? And can one just shut it down? In the PCV you incorporate a setting if AT is present or not. Maybe it works anyway if U toggle the connection between the PCV and the AT or cut the power to the AT?

Best regards,
Mats
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:37 PM   #114
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Ok, I get it. But when will the AT learn and develop it's trims? Don't they get lost if you shut it down? And can one just shut it down? In the PCV you incorporate a setting if AT is present or not. Maybe it works anyway if U toggle the connection between the PCV and the AT or cut the power to the AT?

Best regards,
Mats
I am not sure about the details on the interference between the two units.
I am guessing that since the pc-5 can run on itself...... You are just running on stock map... With the zero loaded. True that you do loose the o2 sensor...... But it is used very little practically so to speak. A rider at he f800 depot reported a 6 up gain , and 4 in torque. I do believe that was with stock headers.
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:08 AM   #115
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I am not sure about the details on the interference between the two units.
I am guessing that since the pc-5 can run on itself...... You are just running on stock map... With the zero loaded. True that you do loose the o2 sensor...... But it is used very little practically so to speak. A rider at he f800 depot reported a 6 up gain , and 4 in torque. I do believe that was with stock headers.
Good info! You would'nt happen to have a link?
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:42 AM   #116
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I seriously doubt that this is correct, since I expect the O2 sensors to be offline at WOT anyway.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:52 AM   #117
ebrabaek
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Good info! You would'nt happen to have a link?
Yeppers...... Here ya go...

http://f800riders.org/forum/showthre...ander-autotune
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:21 PM   #118
mousitsas
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This is NOT a stock bike with a zero map loaded!!!
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:22 AM   #119
ebrabaek
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This is NOT a stock bike with a zero map loaded!!!
I was referring to the OP.....
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:04 AM   #120
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Cams

Hey all, I just picked up both F800 cams off Fleabay for $100 to try on the F658. They look good from the pictures & description, but I'll find out for sure in a couple days. I asked the local BMW shop if they could put a diff. map on the BMS-K, but they said the software won't let them. I guess I'll be trying out the Power Commander w/ autotune or some other fuel mapping software. I'm not completely sure it will work, as I haven't read anyone else trying it; but at $100, who could resist? More to come...
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