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Old 05-01-2013, 09:20 AM   #391
jamie_rides
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Question

Hi SaferMoto,

I am a novice rider with a similar question. I plan to ride a cruiser for 3-4 seasons in NJ on local roads and highways up to 55mph, sometimes commuting to work. I want to include one of your hit-air products in my setup but am having trouble with a few details. Could you please offer advice based on the following?

- I am looking for something versatile - my budget will only cover one torso setup for the four seasons.
- I like the idea of the Motorrad-2 jacket: it seems easier to wear than a separate vest plus armor, fairly stylish, and at $530 also less expensive than separate vest/armor ($350 vest + $350 armor).
- In summer it sounds like the venting is adequate, in winter I could add the outer shell plus winter clothing for warmth. Can it accommodate warm clothing underneath?
- My main concern is that the armor looks like soft pads that would not do much in an impact (this soft padding seems to be present in a lot of dedicated armor). Do you need hard shell for adequate impact protection? Or maybe at my speeds/on pavement it's not necessary.
- Similarly, the fabric looks like it doesn't provide that much abrasion resistance (even in the non-mesh version), but at my speeds perhaps that may not matter as much?
- I'm also a tall guy and many jackets are too short for my arms. My wrists are exposed and look silly in a riding position. My gloves cover my wrists but it would be nice to have a proper fit. Are the sleeves on the motorrad-2 built for riding position (a little bit long)?

I'd be grateful for your advice based on the above.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:33 AM   #392
SaferMoto
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Voz,

I have inserted answers below

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voz View Post
Alan,

What is the difference between the original Motorrad and the Motorrad 2? I see that there are 2 Motorrad 2 versions, one is mesh and the other is normal material (whatever that is?). Is the mesh essentially a summer jacket with better airflow and thus a lower grade of Denier protection in the outer fabric?

Yes the Motorrad 2 Mesh is more of a warm weather jacket allowing better airflow. Parts of the jacket are D1000 others D600. For instance the elbows of the jacket are D1000.

I can see on the Hitair site a reference to a new S System with a hip cusion, is this the same system as I have in my B system but with a cushion in the lower rear of the jacket?

The "S System" refers to the key box and stands for "speed". Look at your keybox just below your CO2 cartridge, if it is a gray color then you have the S System installed. Vests and jackets differ very slightly in the design of the airbag that deploys down over the base of your spine.

In reading the PDF about the Motorrad 2 (non mesh) I note it uses 600 & 1000D fabric. One of my complaints with the original Motorrad jacket was the relatively thin (300D?) fabric, so I am presuming that the Motorrad 2 is a lot thicker?

Yes you would be correct in that assumption

Looks like there is also better standard armour with the HEXA padding? Not sure what that is, is it similar to D30?

I have not heard of D30 so I cant compare but the HEXA armor has had better testing results so the manufacturer decided to change over to that armor

I am presuming from what I have read that the deployment time is the same as it was for the 2012 models, about 200-250 ms?

That is correct

And finally, in early 2012 I had a custom 5XL (USA) size made for me and it is a perfect fit (I am embarassed to say!) can these sizes still be custom ordered?

I have personally never had a custom order done for 1 jacket. Every time I ask for somethign special in a particular color or size I need to order at least 100 I woudl be happy to ask the factory for you. Which Jacket would you like in a 5XL?

Cheers
Let me know if there is anything else I can answer for you
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:54 AM   #393
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Jamie,

I have inserted answers/suggestions below your comments/questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_rides View Post
Hi SaferMoto,

I am a novice rider with a similar question. I plan to ride a cruiser for 3-4 seasons in NJ on local roads and highways up to 55mph, sometimes commuting to work. I want to include one of your hit-air products in my setup but am having trouble with a few details. Could you please offer advice based on the following?

- I am looking for something versatile - my budget will only cover one torso setup for the four seasons.

I would look at our MLV vests then

- I like the idea of the Motorrad-2 jacket: it seems easier to wear than a separate vest plus armor, fairly stylish, and at $530 also less expensive than separate vest/armor ($350 vest + $350 armor).

The Motorrad-2 is a great jacket but it will be WARM in the summer months. If you DONT already have a jacket then it is a good option

- In summer it sounds like the venting is adequate, in winter I could add the outer shell plus winter clothing for warmth. Can it accommodate warm clothing underneath?

If you get a size UP then no problem adding extra layers under it. Not sure what you mean by "add the outer shell"? The Motorrad has no removable/changeable "outershell"

- My main concern is that the armor looks like soft pads that would not do much in an impact (this soft padding seems to be present in a lot of dedicated armor). Do you need hard shell for adequate impact protection? Or maybe at my speeds/on pavement it's not necessary.

The "soft" armor is still CE rated and for some people preferred to the "hard" armor. Hard armor is not so good if there is no energy absorption on the inside as then the energy is transferred right through to the body. Take a look at helmet construction, hard outer shell with softer energy absorption layers inside that. The "soft" armor offers the best balance of protection and energy absorption, hence it is used in most jackets these days

- Similarly, the fabric looks like it doesn't provide that much abrasion resistance (even in the non-mesh version), but at my speeds perhaps that may not matter as much?

As I have explained in earlier replies, the jacket is NOT designed to take long periods of abrasion the main aim is to absorb and distribute the energy of the initial hit which causes 80% of injuries. The new D1000 and D600 are an improvement on the original jackets which I would say brings them to a level field with most "non air-bag equipped jackets on the market. Take a look at this one from Olympia it has D500 and D2000 panels. So more resistance in places like elbows ect but no air bag system priced at $479.99. The manufacturer is trying to strike a balance between protection and affordability. Adding D2000 to the jackets would increase the cost which people think is to expensive already!!! Most ADVRiders always ask for hte discount code when ordering and we are happy to help

- I'm also a tall guy and many jackets are too short for my arms. My wrists are exposed and look silly in a riding position. My gloves cover my wrists but it would be nice to have a proper fit. Are the sleeves on the motorrad-2 built for riding position (a little bit long)?


Difficult to get a total fit without getting a custom jacket made. Again that is why I would think a vest would be a better idea for your riding type and frequency

I'd be grateful for your advice based on the above.
Hope this helped if not I am happy to try again
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:09 AM   #394
jamie_rides
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Thanks, that is very helpful! Just a few follow-up questions:

If you get a size UP then no problem adding extra layers under it. Not sure what you mean by "add the outer shell"? The Motorrad has no removable/changeable "outershell"

My mistake, I guess I was referring to the "B-Liner 3" which is described as an optional addition in the company PDF. But adding that piece should provide additional warmth no? Do you sell the liner separately, or does it just come with the jacket?

Also, one thing I do not understand is that, based on the PDF, it seems like the 600D/1000D measurement applies to both the mesh and non-mesh versions. Shouldn't the mesh by definition give less protection than the regular jacket? At the end of the day, is the main difference between mesh/non-mesh just that the non-mesh is warmer (as opposed to better protection?).

Finally, in an alternate vest+armor set-up, can you recommend any specific armor that would go well with a vest? Along these lines, you seem to offer bulky vests that protect your torso and looser ones that just have the airbag feature. I guess if wearing armor you would probably want to look at looser ones so that you don't have e.g. redundant chest and spine protection?
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:07 AM   #395
SaferMoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_rides View Post
Thanks, that is very helpful! Just a few follow-up questions:

If you get a size UP then no problem adding extra layers under it. Not sure what you mean by "add the outer shell"? The Motorrad has no removable/changeable "outershell"

My mistake, I guess I was referring to the "B-Liner 3" which is described as an optional addition in the company PDF. But adding that piece should provide additional warmth no? Do you sell the liner separately, or does it just come with the jacket?

The B2 go's inside the jacket. I really dont like the B2 I would rather buy a wind stop with fleece from REI. Not the best thing to say but I am honest and just dont think the quality of the B2 lives up to the rest of the product line

Also, one thing I do not understand is that, based on the PDF, it seems like the 600D/1000D measurement applies to both the mesh and non-mesh versions. Shouldn't the mesh by definition give less protection than the regular jacket? At the end of the day, is the main difference between mesh/non-mesh just that the non-mesh is warmer (as opposed to better protection?).

I think the difference in the mesh allows better airflow in the summer. Not sure how the D rating works Mesh V Non-Mesh fabric

Finally, in an alternate vest+armor set-up, can you recommend any specific armor that would go well with a vest? Along these lines, you seem to offer bulky vests that protect your torso and looser ones that just have the airbag feature. I guess if wearing armor you would probably want to look at looser ones so that you don't have e.g. redundant chest and spine protection?


By "armor" do you mean a "pressure suit"The airbag protection is the same in both vests, we just put a different "bulkier" shell around it. This is more to do with style than function
Here is a pic of a Japanese Police Officer wearing his vest


We offer upgraded Chest and Back armor for our vests and jackets here

Anything else I can help answer on vest or jackets just let me know
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:02 PM   #396
jamie_rides
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Thanks again for those answers. For any others following this thread, I scrutinized the mesh vs. non-mesh motorrad-2 specs, and it seems like the manufacturer only makes the 600/1000D claim for parts of the mesh jacket that are polyester (not mesh). By contrast most the non-mesh jacket is fully covered in 600D polyester, with 1000D in the same high-impact areas. I think this means the non-mesh motorrad-2 jacket has much better abrasion resistance.

It's interesting that the difference in vests is just a style thing. But I don't know where to start with what would go under it. The armor you linked to looks a bit extreme for everyday summer cruising. I want something I can wear around after I get off the bike but still offers good protection. I guess I am leaning jacket over vest for this reason.

One further question that applies to both is: how does 1-piece chest armor work? I'm having trouble imagining how you unzip with 1 piece. Is 1-piece safer than 2-piece? And finally, why is the "upgraded" armor better than the stock insert?
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:13 PM   #397
SaferMoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_rides View Post
Thanks again for those answers. For any others following this thread, I scrutinized the mesh vs. non-mesh motorrad-2 specs, and it seems like the manufacturer only makes the 600/1000D claim for parts of the mesh jacket that are polyester (not mesh). By contrast most the non-mesh jacket is fully covered in 600D polyester, with 1000D in the same high-impact areas. I think this means the non-mesh motorrad-2 jacket has much better abrasion resistance.

It's interesting that the difference in vests is just a style thing. But I don't know where to start with what would go under it. The armor you linked to looks a bit extreme for everyday summer cruising. I want something I can wear around after I get off the bike but still offers good protection. I guess I am leaning jacket over vest for this reason.

One further question that applies to both is: how does 1-piece chest armor work? I'm having trouble imagining how you unzip with 1 piece. Is 1-piece safer than 2-piece? And finally, why is the "upgraded" armor better than the stock insert?
I will try and find out from the manufacturer if there is a D rating for the mesh material

I cant offer you a lot of advice on non-airbag jackets. I am sure there are plenty threads on all season jackets in the forum here somewhere. I only linked to the pressure suit as I thought that is what you were asking about.

The 1 piece chest armor simply Velcro's to the inside of the jacket or vest. You can still unzip or unclip but the two sides of the jacket/vest will still be held by the Velcro until you peal it off?

The upgraded back armor is CE rated where the stock insert is not

Hope that answers your questions so far
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:17 PM   #398
jamie_rides
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Really speedy! I'm grateful for your quick and cheerful replies.
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:26 PM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_rides View Post
Really speedy! I'm grateful for your quick and cheerful replies.
Trying to keep the prospective customers happy
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:30 PM   #400
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I just received the Motorrad 2 mesh jacket from Safermoto. I live in AZ now a days and was looking for something from Hit-Air that I might throw on and go but not roast in.

The jacket is nice and fits me well (Large -- 5'8", 35 waist, 175 pounds).

Service from Alan and Beth at Safermoto is outstanding.

Don't over think this stuff -- get a vest or a jacket and one day you may be very happy you did.
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:36 PM   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonopah View Post
I just received the Motorrad 2 mesh jacket from Safermoto. I live in AZ now a days and was looking for something from Hit-Air that I might throw on and go but not roast in.

The jacket is nice and fits me well (Large -- 5'8", 35 waist, 175 pounds).

Service from Alan and Beth at Safermoto is outstanding.

Don't over think this stuff -- get a vest or a jacket and one day you may be very happy you did.
Beth shipped it before I could take pictures of it. That was the 1st one in the States I think

Dont go testing it out now
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:55 PM   #402
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Poor picture but it will give you some idea. I'll take another, better, photo tomorrow on the bike.

Regarding abrasion resistance -- I wear Safermoto equipment to protect against major trauma like neck, back, rib and chest injuries. I imagine that the Motorrad 2 is not going to be as good as leather, or and Aerostich or Motoport in a long slide on asphalt but it is probably okay and if it protects the body better from serious trauma -- I'm all for it. The $500 plus dollars is nothing compared to a trip to the ER followed by hospitalization for serious injury. My son is an ER doc and he rides -- with a Safermoto vest.

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Old 05-07-2013, 09:08 AM   #403
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Other tall riders considering this jacket may be interested in the following information I received from the manufacturer:

Quote:
This model is a little tighter than the other models so I hope it will fit you well.

It's okay to adjust the length of the sleeves at a tailor, but the body part
shouldn't be resized because it's designed to match airbag system.

Regarding the strength of textile, the non-mesh fabric has better abrasion
resistance than the mesh fabric.
They also informed me that the length of the sleeve is 66, 68 and 70cm in the L, XL and XXL versions. That doesn't correspond to "sleeve length" for a dress shirt, which is measured from the neck. Because shoulder widths are 57, 60 and 63cm, I estimate a total neck-to-cuff of 94.5, 99.5 and 103.5cm -- which seems plenty long.

Also, as you can see the manufacturer confirms better abrasion resistance in the non-mesh vs. mesh version.

Safermoto, I have written to you about placing an order: I did not see the non-mesh jacket listed on your website, but if you are able to order it I would be pleased to do business with you.

One thing, is your back armor upgrade CE-2 rated or just CE-1? If only CE-1 then maybe it would make sense to adapt a CE-2 insert to this jacket by sewing on some velcro for better protection.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:21 AM   #404
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I have been riding with the Motorrad 2 mesh jacket for a few days now. Covered about 400 miles here in AZ. Ridden from the Phoenix area (90 - 95 degrees) up through Payson/Strawberry (65 degrees) and back down into the heat.

The mesh jacket flows air very well and has been quite comfortable. I like it a lot.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:30 AM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_rides View Post
Other tall riders considering this jacket may be interested in the following information I received from the manufacturer:

They also informed me that the length of the sleeve is 66, 68 and 70cm in the L, XL and XXL versions. That doesn't correspond to "sleeve length" for a dress shirt, which is measured from the neck. Because shoulder widths are 57, 60 and 63cm, I estimate a total neck-to-cuff of 94.5, 99.5 and 103.5cm -- which seems plenty long.

Also, as you can see the manufacturer confirms better abrasion resistance in the non-mesh vs. mesh version.

Safermoto, I have written to you about placing an order: I did not see the non-mesh jacket listed on your website, but if you are able to order it I would be pleased to do business with you.

One thing, is your back armor upgrade CE-2 rated or just CE-1? If only CE-1 then maybe it would make sense to adapt a CE-2 insert to this jacket by sewing on some velcro for better protection.
The last stock sheet I got from the manufacturer showed no stock in the non-mesh Motorrad 2 that is why it is not showing up on the site
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