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Old 05-14-2015, 08:46 PM   #1
CJ3Flyer OP
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Lines through corners (street)

Am I the only one?

As is often highlighted in the Killboy Fail thread AND trying to learn from all of the "constructive critism" offered by the all of the expert inmates I have been focused on my lines during brisk cornering on country roads of late. I live in what in what I think is a beautiful part af the world with many roads where if you exceed 50 mph your crazy due to blind corners and the fact they are public roads. In other words, tight corners with hilly terrain and driveways...

In an effort to improve I have been focusing on especially left turns. Obviously, compared with a track (in the land formerly of greatness and freedom) left turns are tricky. Again I refer to the Killboy thread... Body parts hanging over the yellow line is inviting disaster. Riding a left turn with the tires close to the (right) edge of the road while riding briskly in a left turn is uncomfortable...

(I have done a few track days/schools but I am a poser....)

What I hope to learn from this post is tips from guys who do this well. I am fully expecting the "slow down" replies, the "your doing it all wrong"; what I am looking for tips. Tips like look where you want to go, and ___________.

Any validation that this is hard? Any tips?

Cheers.
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Old 05-15-2015, 04:49 AM   #2
shovelstrokeed
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It really isn't all that hard but a lot depends on circumstance.

On a road like the Gap, where, most of the time, the entire lane is available and there is little to no access from the side, start near the right fog line. Choose an apex that leaves you a bit of margin with the center line and start looking for your exit line. Pick your exit line and be sure to follow through leaving yourself in position for the initiation of the next turn. This is the smoothest way to get down a twisty road. IMHO, a late apex is a very good thing on a road with 2 way traffic and easy to master once you learn to properly initiate a turn.

Far too many riders I have seen tend to quit a turn too early and not pay attention to the upcoming turn leaving themselves in poor position for the next one. A sure recipe for getting behind the bike and the road and a poor line into the next turn. I got yelled at during Code level 1 class for turning too late and driving past their turn-in X marks before starting a turn. I merely stated that as a street rider, I needed the margin for two way traffic and obstacles in my way. I wasn't seeking the absolute fastest line that they selected for me. I wasn't there to learn to race, just to ride better. I passed nearly all the riders who started ahead of me so I must have been doing something right.
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Old 05-15-2015, 06:03 AM   #3
stevo7706
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I don't even have to think about it, it must be instinctual. I ride away from oncoming traffic. I'd rather ride the outside edge and have some reaction time or a place to bail than meet some car who overshoots a turn. Straightening out lefthand blind corners is a risk IMHO.
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Old 05-15-2015, 06:15 AM   #4
dwizum
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I have two priorities when I think about cornering lines:

1) Create good sight lines. Pick a lane position that allows the best sight around the corner. Don't ride in a lane position that's not verifiably safe (i.e. don't crowd the middle line if I can't see what's coming).
2) Have fun. Pick a line through the corner that allows an enjoyable rhythm from corner to corner.

This probably results in a line similar to what shovelstrokeed is describing for left bends. Set up on the far right (which gives you the best visibility around the corner) and plan for a late apex. As you're able to see more of the corner, decide if you want to apex closer to the center lines or stay wide. Personally, if I'm going too fast to feel comfortable adjusting like that once already in the bend, I'm going way too fast for street riding.
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Old 05-15-2015, 01:10 PM   #5
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I like the late apex theory. Puts more lean angle on a part of the road I have better visibility on (right in front of you), gives you a little more visibility around the turn, and reduces lean angle for the unknown part. As you enter the unknown part, you can get on the throttle if things are going well to keep or increase lean.

http://www.soundrider.com/archive/sa...ls/RS-cc2.aspx
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Old 05-15-2015, 05:35 PM   #6
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When going into a left turn you want to be set up on the right hand side. Look through the turn (your peripheral vision will alert you to anything that could be a problem) focus on the gap ahead (i.e. gaps where you know the road is going.) Always scanning ahead. You want to be apexing when you can see the final exit of the turn and not before. If you're apexing before you can visually see the where the turn ends then you're apexing to early. You should be on the throttle at the earliest possible moment in the corner which means your steering should be completed, a smooth roll on (example would be a smooth 5th gear roll on from 4k-6k on any 600cc or bigger bike) will let the suspension be in it's sweet spot. To minimize lean angle of the bike, you may want to put the mass of your body to the inside of the bike for the turn. Look at the bike head on and draw an imaginary line from the front wheel to the top. Your helmet and the majority of your body should be on the inside of that line depending on which direction you're going, left or right.
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:45 PM   #7
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To all, thank you. Aldend123, great link!

I have been riding 45 years. I am doing fine but for whatever reason decided to obsess on this. Ok, maybe not "whatever reason", I don't want any part of this action and wanted a double check. http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....postcount=1723

My natural inclination is to follow lines more appropriate to a track especially when the pace is up. My survival instincts keep me slow enough and using more street appropriate lines. Based on your feedback I am doing ok.

Tires on the far right side of the road just feels a little uncomfortable at a brisk clip but is totally ok, in fact 'right' especially in a left turn...

Again, thanks....
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Old 05-16-2015, 04:03 AM   #8
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In my area, it's not so much worrying about oncoming traffic, it's the kid on a 4 wheeler that just did doughnuts at the end of his gravel driveway, spraying graver all over the road.
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Old 05-16-2015, 05:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivershot View Post
In my area, it's not so much worrying about oncoming traffic, it's the kid on a 4 wheeler that just did doughnuts at the end of his gravel driveway, spraying graver all over the road.
Minimal amounts of that going on here too which makes putting the tires way to the right at a good clip a bit unnerving... Not so much here but in New England, where I grew up (and started my street riding), the right edges of the roads would be very sandy, sometimes as late as June.
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Old 05-16-2015, 08:24 PM   #10
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Sandy verge is not a problem, you are not doing much turning there, you should be hitting max lean angle at the apex or shortly before. As you have the widest portion of your lane available to you, move left a little bit.

You have to assess things like road condition, oncoming traffic and sight lines throughout the turn process, up to and including where you need to be on the road for your next turn. When you reach the turn in point, you should already be looking at the apex and beyond, at the apex, you should be looking at your exit line and beyond. This is the key to smoothly and rapidly making progress down the road.
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Old 05-16-2015, 09:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelstrokeed View Post
Sandy verge is not a problem, you are not doing much turning there, you should be hitting max lean angle at the apex or shortly before. As you have the widest portion of your lane available to you, move left a little bit.

You have to assess things like road condition, oncoming traffic and sight lines throughout the turn process, up to and including where you need to be on the road for your next turn. When you reach the turn in point, you should already be looking at the apex and beyond, at the apex, you should be looking at your exit line and beyond. This is the key to smoothly and rapidly making progress down the road.
All very true... I have one specific left turn that is at the crest of a blind hill. To me that's a worst case scenario because when you're apexing that turn (which is blind) the tires are still way right. If someone 'spotted' for me with a radio it'd be piece of cake.

Again, thanks to all.
 photo image.jpg1.jpg

Now that there is funny!
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Old 05-17-2015, 08:18 AM   #12
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I have something similar here. Plus two lanes merge into one near the top of the hill and there's another small turn on the downhill side. Good to practice on.
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Old 05-17-2015, 08:36 AM   #13
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Excellent roads near you for sure.
HMU if you want to meet up, Im in Woodstock.
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Old 05-18-2015, 07:45 AM   #14
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I found that gravel accumulates mostly in the center of the Lane, so when I'm hitting an unfamiliar corner I try to stay in the tire tracks. Sometimes it works out and sometimes I just have to slow down. Other than that I tend to hugthe inside of corners. Generally the grip is better and less junk has accumulated. On left hand corners I plan on shooting out to the outside at a moments notice. If it's an unfamiliar corner I will stay more to the outside which does not leave much of an escape route. It's a gamble really. Scares me sometimes thinking about it. Try not to think aboutit.
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Old 05-18-2015, 11:00 AM   #15
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David Hough's writing on this subject is excellent. I've always struggled more with left turns at speed, don't like getting over near the center line. Fortunately, if a guy does his recommended delayed apex style of turning you'll find that the sideswipe zone tends to occur where, if you're doing it right, you'll be near the right edge of the road, at or before you lean the bike over into the turn, so should have plenty of margin for error.
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