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Old 05-21-2010, 06:28 PM   #76
YetiGS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWHillbilly
Your dealer said this? Affecting the F650gs only?
He's in Turkey. Don't hold your breath for a recall here.
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:36 PM   #77
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Guys, i have an 800ST and this is a common problem with the Rotax engines...I'm ready to take mine in for a 2nd gasket reinstall and I'm at 8000 miles. Some on the F800riders.org board have had as many as 5 of them installed. Apparently the answer is to use a LOT of gasket sealant during the install, but techs don't like customers telling them how to do their job...and since in my area they don't work on a lot of F800s I don't think they've figured it out.
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:25 AM   #78
JoelWisman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_92606
Guys, i have an 800ST and this is a common problem with the Rotax engines...I'm ready to take mine in for a 2nd gasket reinstall and I'm at 8000 miles. Some on the F800riders.org board have had as many as 5 of them installed. Apparently the answer is to use a LOT of gasket sealant during the install, but techs don't like customers telling them how to do their job...and since in my area they don't work on a lot of F800s I don't think they've figured it out.
Oh contrare. I love it when a customer tells me how to fix their bike, especially if they are right.

That's one of the reason I read a lot here, I have learned more then a few things from collective experance of fellow adventure riders.

And if a customer tells me what to do but is wrong, well, that doesent bother me either. I'm wrong sometimes too, it happens.

Firstly, the ST has a slightly different engine. Cylinder bank angle, water pump cover, and finish are some of the differences, but there are others as well, including the valve cover.

Now I will admit, slipping RTV silicone everywhere will often hide the symptoms of what is wrong for a long time, but I submit, trying to glue the cover on to cover for the real cause of the leak is not the best solution.

Even if a customer is ok with the apperance of rtv that glops out of the gasket, making for a sloppy looking job, some of thar rtv glops into the motor as well.

Over time the rtv that glops into the engine from "using a lot of rtv" will break off and travel to basket and pickup screens, possibly plugging them.


Now let's put our thinking caps on for a moment.

Some bikes have leaked repeatedly.

Others, mine included, have never leaked.

Bikes that have never leaked, tend to continue to not leak after techs do a valve clearance check, which the cover has to be removed for.

Techs are trained to apply a small amount of rtv to only the left side of the cover near the cut outs. Most techs probbably do like they are trained.

When a valve cover is removed and reinstalled by a tech, it usually does not leak.


I see hundreds of F800 and F650GS's. Most have never leaked oil out the valve cover gasket, and continue to NOT leak after one of our techs r&r's the cover and uses a small amount of rtv.

So to my logic, if a small amount of rtv nearly always does the job again and again, I find it illogical that some bikes would require "a lot" of rtv unless something is different on the repeat leaker bikes.

What is defferent that causes some bikes to leak repeatedly is likely one of the following:

the gasket is defective. Yes we normally reuse the same rubber gasket and it works fine, but if the gasket is defective it needs to be replaced.

The valve cover is defective. It is warped or there is some other casting flaw, perhaps the deminsions are wrong.

The head is not flat. This would be surprising but it is possible.

The shoulder bolts that hold the cover down are streched or made wrong.

The top hat washers are the wrong shape.

The rubber washers under the top hats are defective.

There is excessive crankcase pressure from an internal engine or breather problem.

The factory screwed up some how and now a tech keeps screwing up somehow causing repeated leaks.


That's all the possible causes I can think of, there could also be others.

What can't be the cause is the abscence of "a lot" of rtv, otherwise all of them would leak and most never do.

But if you come into my shop and demand that I use a lot of rtv on your valve cover to mask the real problem, I will cheerfully do just that as long as you sign off on the service record I generate noting why I am about to use a lot of rtv and risk clogging up your oil pickup screen and baskets some day.
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:56 PM   #79
v8toilet
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Had my first valve cover gasket replaced around 1000 miles ago. I'm ready for another.... already...
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:39 PM   #80
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Got mine back from the yamaha dealer, he's 90% sure they were doing it wrong at BMW. He said there was nothing wrong they just had zero RTV anywhere. After a few calls to a few BMW mechanics he's got it sorted... hopefully for the last time.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:59 AM   #81
GB
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Mine went in for a gasket change and the dealer is very sure it will leak again. I talked to the tech and he says the bottom of the gasket has ridges on it and that's where it leaks from, even though he put a silicone sealer of sorts under it, the tech thinks it will leak again, until bmw changes the design of the gasket..

Mine started leaking around 10,000 km.

This is really a sad state of affairs when they can't make something this simple leak proof. My buddy's 800ST leaks also.
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Old 05-31-2010, 04:11 AM   #82
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Howdy,

Well now that mine has been repaired twice before the end of my warranty I think that I have a case for claiming the repair of this issue during the rest of the time that I own the bike - it will be my argument that the need to redo the original 'warranty repair' constitutes an acceptance of behalf of the manufacturer that the part was faulty from manufacture and therefore until the problem is fully resolved the manufacturer will continue to endeavor to resolve the issue.

Whether this works or not is another story but I will be checking the relevant regulations later in the week to see if I have a case.

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Old 05-31-2010, 06:47 AM   #83
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I don't know if this makes any sense, but the tech who worked on my bike said that the gasket is shaped like this at the top: /\ (upside down v) and is flat at the bottom with channels. He thinks the leaking happens from the bottom of the gasket. I looked at my engine yesterday and saw more oil coming out of the front left area.. I'm about 80% sure this is a new leak, so I wiped it all clean and will watch it.

It would help us all in this thread if you mention the mileage of your bike when the leak around the valve cover gasket developed. Just edit your post if you need to.
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:26 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
It would help us all in this thread if you mention the mileage of your bike when the leak around the valve cover gasket developed. Just edit your post if you need to.
'09 started leaking at around 9,600 miles.

It's just a seep, but it's enough that if I don't wipe it every other day or so it's going to make a mess of the engine. I'll have it fixed, crosses fingers, when they do the 12k mile service.
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Old 05-31-2010, 09:34 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
It would help us all in this thread if you mention the mileage of your bike when the leak around the valve cover gasket developed. Just edit your post if you need to.
I've got an '09. Started leaking at 5000 miles. The local BMW service shop slapped on some white goop at the 6000 mile service. Not a drop since. Curiously, the left side engine housing covering the clutch also started leaking in the same manner at the same time. Same white goop seems to have cured that as well.
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:32 PM   #86
v8toilet
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Mine has the white goop after replacement and is leaking...
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Old 05-31-2010, 10:25 PM   #87
RAD800
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mine started at about 5000k's ive got 36K on it now.

Sydney rider, ive had this discussion with a few people at the same shop and they all said the same thing. If it has been a problem for a while it will be coverd under their "good will"? warranty. I'll put it to the test soon enough i guess.
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Old 05-31-2010, 10:28 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAD800
Got mine back from the yamaha dealer, he's 90% sure they were doing it wrong at BMW. He said there was nothing wrong they just had zero RTV anywhere. After a few calls to a few BMW mechanics he's got it sorted... hopefully for the last time.
So RAD800 who was this "Yamaha Shop"? - might try them myself.
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:26 AM   #89
RAD800
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They bought out sea side and are in river street, felt strange pulling up out the back of a yamaha dealership but their mechanic is ace and he's BMW qualified.

EDIT: Don't know their no. but they've diverted all seasides phones if it helps.
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:07 PM   #90
mapuda
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Mine did not leak any oil until the 12k mile service when the dealer checked the valves and replaced the gasket.

I can see that it is weeping a little. I am at 16.5k now and I will keep an eye on it and see about getting it replaced if it worsens or until the 18k mile service.
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