Great Western Trail Tracks Wanted bits and pieces OK!!!!

[wbbnm]

Originally Posted by Countdown

Good Tracks. I will integrate then into my files and repost on GPSX. At first glance, looks like you took some highways where I had found some secondary road bypasses?

I am leaving for Memorial Day in Prescott then up to Utah to scout on north through Bryce.

Where are you talking about the hiways?

Some of us took the hiway out of Globe just because we got a late start fixing flats, but one group took the dirt road and loved it. And I did take the hiway over to Tombstone because it was getting late.

[Countdown]

Originally Posted by wbbnm

Where are you talking about the hiways?.

North of globe lots of bypasses of 288. There is a fun 2-track, then old highway, then again old highway as you get close to 60. Just copy my track into your file and compare.

I went thru down town Globe past old buildings.

Then out of Benson, I bypassed 80 a long way but all kinds of construction so I couldn't check all posibilities. I couild not find a way thru from Hwy 80 but I did find a ranch that had a sign with a phone number to call to get thru. I think it is in waypoint in my file.

I did not ride section you did south of 80, it said closed ahead coming from south. Any real problems other than waypoints? I rode the other option west of 83.

[wbbnm]

Okay thanks for the info on 288. Actually we were so tired at that point that 288 looked like heaven and we were happy to take it over to the road to Globe.

I didn't actually do the ride south of 80, but two subgroups took two different routes. I will ask them if they ran into any access issues, but they didn't mention it.

Which route are you interested in - the east or the west one? One of the guys had ridden the west one up from the south, which I believe has more dirt, a few months earlier. He is one of the crew trying to create an AZ Back Country Discovery Route.

There was a No Motorized Vehicle sign at the south end of a very tough uphill about halfway between I-10 and 80, We were coming from the north and there was no sign at the bottom.

[Countdown]

Originally Posted by wbbnm

Which route are you interested in - the east or the west one? One of the guys had ridden the west one up from the south, which I believe has more dirt, a few months earlier. He is one of the crew trying to create an AZ Back Country Discovery Route..

Not sure where you are talking about? between 10 & 80?

[wbbnm]

Originally Posted by Countdown

Not sure where you are talking about? between 10 & 80?

Sorry I meant 82 which is the paved east-west road nearly halfway between I-10 and the border. It is the road I took to Tombstone.

The only place where it might have been closed was the No Motorized Vehicle sign which was clearly being totally ignored. Going down the hill would have been a lot easier than going up it. We had about 4-5 falls out of 4 bikes at one point or another on the hill.

The northern part of our route between I-10 and 82 is a little on the hard side. The road is very primitive. It loosely follows a power line and goes thru lots of minor canyons with steep rocky downhills and uphills but all makeable by us B riders. I did lay the KLR over on one downhill trying to avoid a big droppoff I didn't want to go over.

And I think the planned route to the east in south part of that area is at least as hard. We bailed to a much easier ranch road which took us a few miles west.

The guys who took the hard route were our A-riders and they of course said everything was a piece of cake.

[Countdown]

Leaving today for Prescott for weekend, then heading to Bryce to pick up from where I left off last October heading North.

[Countdown]

Just got home. Made it to 7 miles north of Torrey but discovered I did not do the best road into Torrey from the south over Boulder Top. New Tracks are posted on GPSXchange.com.

[wbbnm]

Originally Posted by Countdown

Just got home. Made it to 7 miles north of Torrey but discovered I did not do the best road into Torrey from the south over Boulder Top. New Tracks are posted on GPSXchange.com.

I just downloaded your tracks and they look pretty interesting. How well marked was the GWT? Any particularly difficult sections?

[Countdown]

Originally Posted by wbbnm

I just downloaded your tracks and they look pretty interesting. How well marked was the GWT? Any particularly difficult sections?

I don't remember any signs south of Preacott NF. There were signs from Camp Verde north almost to the Grand Canyon but I did not like some of the routes and the GWT does not go gas to gas. so my tracks go off GWT to gas but in most cases I show the marked trail that bypasses gas.

It was marked from just north of Grand Canyon up to county road just south of Bryce then locked gate on intended route. Best route appears to be up cottonwood cyn north of Page. Again marked from south/west of Bryce to almost Torrey. Marked very well north of Torrey.

However the signs are very poor in many places, they just did not do a good job of signing turns. There will be 5 signs along a road with no turns then you come to an intersection and no signs. At best, the signs let you know you are still on he designated trail as you follow GPS tracks.

As to difficulty, I put waypoints noting bad sections and always have an easy way option around any really bad sections like the very rocky and steep ATV trails south of Torrey.

[wbbnm]

I am planning about a week long dirt bike ride in southern Utah for this fall.

One of the days is going to cover a lot of the GWT in the Dixie forest south of Torrey. I got Countdown's tracks and have been using them for planning.

I was looking for a way to come into the area from the east off 12. I think we will try ChokeCherry trail. It is supposed to be a difficult 4wd/ATV trail.

Enough rambling what I wanted to note is that I downloaded some great forest service maps of the area from the Dixie web site:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/dixie/...TELPRDB5312702

I got both the forest user map and the MVUM. The user map is really nice it shows hiking only and motorized trails very distinctly via colors. GWT segments are also well marked.

My only complaint is that the maps do not quite go all the way north or east, but I can live with that.

Another issue is that it seems that one of Countdown tracks, called Boulder Top has a region near the actual Boulder Top that is quite a ways off from the road I see on GE. This road does not show on any digital Garmin map I have. Also there is not time stamp info and the points are pretty sparse, so I am guessing that he drew it in from a best guess. We will probably ride it and I will post our tracks after we do the ride.

[Countdown]

Originally Posted by wbbnm

Another issue is that it seems that one of Countdown tracks, called Boulder Top has a region near the actual Boulder Top that is quite a ways off from the road I see on GE. This road does not show on any digital Garmin map I have. Also there is not time stamp info and the points are pretty sparse, so I am guessing that he drew it in from a best guess. We will probably ride it and I will post our tracks after we do the ride.

That is the one trail I did not get to, I met about 20 guys on the trail that had just done it and said it was great. I just used Draw Tool to make it. If you do it, send me your tracks.

I just got back from family reunion in Missouri and spent two day at Salina finishing Torrey to Salina and out of Salina. Very rocky trail 15 miles north of Torrey with no easy way around. Looks like Capitol Reef would be best option.

On way home, spotted two overloaded Dual Sport bikes on frontage road along I-70. Pulled off at next off ramp and waited. I get out when guy comes up, he says "I know you". It was BajaJoe from bay area. He and wife had ridden from Middlegate to Moab and were on way back.

I posted update on GPSXchange.

[wbbnm]

thanks for the info on the GWT north of Torrey. We may try to ride it. We will be on real dirt bikes so maybe it won't be so bad.

I downloaded the Dixie NF maps. I have been making screen dumps of sections, georeferencing them in GE, and then using Basecamp to draw tracks in areas where nothing shows on either City Nav or Topos.

Unfortunately georeferencing is really hard. Even though I worked at it a long time, the track I created along Boulder Top was about as far off the real road (~.1 mile) as your estimate was based on Google Earth.

I think a better approach is to use the overlay map images and draw finely sampled direct routes and then tweak them iteratively using Google Earth in places where they are way off. Or else learn how to use the track point modification tool in GE.

BTW where was your reunion in Missouri. I grew up in St. Louis but haven't been back in a few years.

[HogWild]

Originally Posted by wbbnm

I think a better approach is to use the overlay map images and draw finely sampled direct routes and then tweak them iteratively using Google Earth in places where they are way off. Or else learn how to use the track point modification tool in GE.

That's what I did with the GWT maps for all of Utah and parts of Arizona and Idaho.

Jerry, a couple of your buddies (Russ and more) just rode a BUNCH of the GWT tracks that I created on GE. They did much of the stuff I drew from Lake Powell and Kanab up way past Torrey. Lots of stuff I thought might not be passable was fine. Did you get their recorded tracks? I think they were there just a couple of days before you.

[Countdown]

Originally Posted by wbbnm

I think a better approach is to use the overlay map images and draw finely sampled direct routes and then tweak them iteratively using Google Earth in places where they are way off. Or else learn how to use the track point modification tool in GE.

BTW where was your reunion in Missouri. I grew up in St. Louis but haven't been back in a few years.

I just use the tracks Scott and others gave me and hand draw tracks from government travel maps and then go scout. The difference is that I am not going on a ride, I am scouting all possible ways to find the best one. South of Salina the marked GWT has many secitons of very difficlult, very slow ATV trails that are not what a long distant motorcycle rider needs. If you look at my tracks on GPSX you will see that where possible I have these ATV trails in Red with Dark Green bypasses as the prefered route.

The trail north of Torrey was ok for a dirt bike with only 5 miles of bad rocks but it looks like a much better ride would be to go east from Torrey on the highway thru Capitol Reef then turn north up the Freemont River back to the trail at Heart/Rock lakes. Anyone have this track?

Both my folks were from Bonne Terre, 60 mi S of STL. I spent 10 years writing family history of my Grand Parents. Had about 30 members come to party to get a copy.

[Countdown]

Originally Posted by HogWild

Jerry, a couple of your buddies (Russ and more) just rode a BUNCH of the GWT tracks that I created on GE. They did much of the stuff I drew from Lake Powell and Kanab up way past Torrey. Lots of stuff I thought might not be passable was fine. Did you get their recorded tracks? I think they were there just a couple of days before you.

No, which Russ?

A bunch of guys I ride with went to the area just after my Memorial trip but I had to go to 50th HS reunion. Big problem between Kanab and Bryce was locked gate with good road with heavy use. I rode right to the gate from both sides, no closed section, just one gate. It appears to be dude ranch so may be able to buy way thru.