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Old 01-21-2014, 03:57 PM   #3616
fetid_swamp
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thanks Carlos.

so cyril in going through his road book and googs earth in alien fashion notes with a * the spots he may value a reminder. ie, finding the "good way" or those sorts of spots he may waste fuel/time searching for a wp...
then after his hot shower & massage, while he slumbers in his air conditioned 'bago, mapping assistance gets to drawing individual "maps" to cut in at the *
if he needs them theyre there, no fumbling with an iphone, if not needed, scroll past...
possible/worthwhile??
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:18 PM   #3617
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Originally Posted by ArthDuro View Post
tricky one this is indeed...

Finding shortcuts and using them would certainly be a direct way to break the rules and cheat.
Hidden way points are a way to counter this as you would still never know where those are until the gps tells you.
You could miss one of those on a shortcut you pre-planned and then you would have to go back to get it if the gps was nice enough to inform you of that, etc. There are other benefits like knowing that a certain ridge should be followed as opposed to dropping in a valley etc and that is where the grey area is as this is info that can provide an advantage.

Learning the course turn by turn? I have a real hard time believing this is possible...not the night before, not on the dakar with all of its snowball dangers, not even for someone with special memory and skills. Even the WRC drivers that get to recce the stages before don't entirely get to "learn" the course. Not even the stages that they ran in the past. Simply too much information to process and memorize that is why they make pace notes and have someone call them out for them. The road book is the bible and too many traps can be hidden, the only sure way is the road book.

Using a gps device while on the course for navigation or to aid navigation is a no no NO period no matter what.
Phones should only be used to send out awesome tweets to feed the F5irehose.
if you had Autism ,you could read the whole roadbook the night before and then not need a roadbook holder .You could remember every instruction.!!
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:18 PM   #3618
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Originally Posted by fetid_swamp View Post
possible/worthwhile??
Possible, YES. Worthwhile, . . . depends on how much the "assistant" charges for the service, and how badly the competitor wants those services. In my case, my price was too high for all who showed some interest. Everyone wants something for free, or rediculously cheap. Nothing about Dakar is cheap, let alone the things that support WINNING dakar!

Remember, each person in the bivouac costs tens of thousands
of dollars/euros. And if most of the task is done at home through data links to the bivouac, it still takes MANY hours to do the mapping and special note creation. Then that has to be sent to someone in the bivouac to be "pasted" into the roadbook at the appropriate places. And the competitor still should look at those key locations in Google Earth to understand what the special notes mean. It takes a lot more work than one would think. And highly skilled people don't generally like to loose money while applying their skills.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:38 PM   #3619
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ok any google earth exploring would have been done in the comfort of the office in Austria long before anyone had even left EU

in 2013 Dakar I personally saw and looked through hard bound pre-prepared books with KTM logos all through them on the dash of CdP's fast assistance van that KTM had prepared which included of ALL the rallys stage roadbooks ie the full days' scrolls along with all the stage maps, fuel distances, Assistance access points etc etc ie everything for every stage for every day of the race.

KTM has no surprises about any stage, they have studied them in detail long before arriving at the race start

so lets not kid ourselves about the intel KTM has access to or who provides it to them ok !

bitch about Mini corporate influence as much as you like its just the same in the bikes, in 2013 CdP won because Ruben was told to back off !!

Honda, Yamaha and Speedbrain etc etc are WAY behind the ball game compared to KTM re race strategy & intel
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:55 PM   #3620
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in 2013 Dakar I personally saw and looked through hard bound pre-prepared books with KTM logos all through them on the dash of CdP's fast assistance van that KTM had prepared which included of ALL the rallys stage roadbooks ie the full days' scrolls along with all the stage maps, fuel distances, Assistance access points etc etc ie everything for every stage for every day of the race.

so much for the route's secrecy.....

can this continue with other manufacturers now competing?
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:20 PM   #3621
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ok any google earth exploring would have been done in the comfort of the office in Austria long before anyone had even left EU

in 2013 Dakar I personally saw and looked through hard bound pre-prepared books with KTM logos all through them on the dash of CdP's fast assistance van that KTM had prepared which included of ALL the rallys stage roadbooks ie the full days' scrolls along with all the stage maps, fuel distances, Assistance access points etc etc ie everything for every stage for every day of the race.

KTM has no surprises about any stage, they have studied them in detail long before arriving at the race start

so lets not kid ourselves about the intel KTM has access to or who provides it to them ok !

bitch about Mini corporate influence as much as you like its just the same in the bikes, in 2013 CdP won because Ruben was told to back off !!

Honda, Yamaha and Speedbrain etc etc are WAY behind the ball game compared to KTM re race strategy & intel
Welcome back Garry. Gutted about your engine mate. Must have been bloody fun up to that point!
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:22 PM   #3622
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The trick is to make it well known that the course can and is being mapped, and that various teams have "secret" info that others don't have. The more that gets out, the more likely ASO will have to do something about it. It's part of the reason I discuss the mapping in the open. Expose the uneven playing field!
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:29 PM   #3623
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well there you go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SafariBerg View Post
......
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:10 PM   #3624
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The Bivouac (general rallye raid news)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallye View Post
if you had Autism ,you could read the whole roadbook the night before and then not need a roadbook holder .You could remember every instruction.!!

Yes but you highly unlikely to be able to have it together to make it to dakar.

Some of the things an autistic mind is capable of are downright mind blowing however.

I am just saying that learning the road book turn by turn the night before is highly unlikely even for an alien.

The info they have before hand however seems to be substantial and definitely an advantage.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:26 PM   #3625
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:29 PM   #3626
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:53 PM   #3627
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Here's one more from Mr. Delstov. I don't know who he is, but these videos are great. Check out the bikes racing with a mini at 2:43

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Old 01-21-2014, 11:13 PM   #3628
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Originally Posted by Dread Pendragon View Post
Here's one more from Mr. Delstov. I don't know who he is, but these videos are great. Check out the bikes racing with a mini at 2:43


Great Videos, but not too sure of the competition of the bikes racing the Mini though it must have been unpleasant for 20 or so seconds after on the bikes and not knowing if there was anything comeing from behind

Mind you there are 2 things you can see from the video - the dust! - man look at the level it is and how are you supposed to close and overtake in those conditions?

Obvioulsy this is only on parts of the stage(s) but still significant I would say, so once you loose time in these conditions it's difficult and dangerous to get it back - it just reinforces the reseeding rule?

Mini cam - to keep this level up for 400 - 600 km on the specials - nothing short of superhuman - all credit to the top guys - cars and bike - oh and quads and trucks of course

One final thing, we seem to be somewhat split on JBB -

Valiant, dynamic, great effort and unlucky - or Valiant, dynamic, great effort and threw it away
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:30 PM   #3629
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^^^

And what about those Malle Moto warriors? Bringing up the rear following the masses including the support trucks. Imagine the fresh-fresh fluff/ruts left for these riders and eating the dust. Pushing on, perseverance to the nines.

Salute to the warriors bringing up the rear.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:49 PM   #3630
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I put these together:

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