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Old 12-01-2011, 09:25 AM   #1141
JMo (& piglet)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodovitch View Post
True, but I thought that the 449 had a hydraulic clutch (nothing against cables - apart from the fact that they remind me of my cable-destroying XR250 many years back oh the grief)

So have they mated the 449 cylinder & head to GX cases?
I'm not totally up on the G450X/Husky 449, other than a passing nerd at them when I've been in a workshop - but yes, it would seem they both ran/run a hydraulic clutch in enduro spec...

However, possibly that was one of the weak points in a rally configuration? - being that the G450/449 clutch is on the end of the flywheel and runs much quicker that a regular clutch, I understand they had overheating issues... and that heat may well have transfered to the slave cylinder of the hydraulic actuator - essentially reducing/losing clutch control?

Using a cable would mean they retain clutch action for longer?

As for the engine internals, I only know what I've picked up fro chatting to Si - the G450X engine was reworked for the application in the 449, and many (all?) of the shortcomings addressed, based on the feedback they collated from campaigning the G450X in enduro (and to a lesser extend rally raid).

I'd still go with a Yamaha or KTM mind you... they also look prettier!

Jx
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:38 AM   #1142
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I am going through clutch issues with my LC4 motor with a hydro clutch.. If I could switch to the older cable style I would.. nothing but extra problems with the hyrdro including: master piston going bad, holes in a clutch hose, O rings on the slave wearing out and the heat and uneven pressures that you mention.. then you have the extra force it takes on your forearm to work the thing.. If I build another motor I will use older 02 cases..
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:56 AM   #1143
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Appreciate the insight Jenny, that's more technical knowledge than I can handle

My mechanic contests the 511 in the local enduro championship
in conditions known to fry clutches (tight, technical trails leading to full-on
MX style special tests), will ask him if he has had any issues.

Myself, I prefer the hydraulic alternative the more recent bikes offer.
Have been stranded too many times in my earlier years on XRs and DRs,
and found myself constantly routing spare clutch cables alongside the
operating ones.. changing was a real pain in the ass as my
hand always got fried when trying to hook up the spare behind cylinder heads,
plus they would always slacken when the engine got on the hotter side
in more brutal enduro conditions..

I am quite the luddite when it comes to new technology on dirt-bikes,
but the hydraulic clutch was a welcome addition when it was introduced
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:39 PM   #1144
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There are few problems with Husky's, lads were desperately trying to re-do rear fuel tank after Marocco, as all this weight was cracking attachments.

Earlier this year, in Abu Dhabi, mechanics were changing exhaust every second day, as all packing was gone after 2 days in desert. One of the reasons was build of system, second is 13.000 revs, probably highest from all engines out there.

And one interesting thing, this engines turns wrong way, which means, when you twist throttle on normal bike, rear will be forced down, when you do it with Husky, rear lifts up and affects traction.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:10 PM   #1145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 690RR View Post
And one interesting thing, this engines turns wrong way, which means, when you twist throttle on normal bike, rear will be forced down, when you do it with Husky, rear lifts up and affects traction.
Wouldn't it be more the mass/forces of the rear wheel affecting the torque/direction of force rather than the relatively light engine internals. Quite obviously the rear wheel turns in the 'normal' direction. (unless that Husky is a handful in reverse.)
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:16 PM   #1146
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AFAIK the new Husky/BMW hyrbrid runs the 26L subframe tank that MecaSystems offers for the Honda CRF450X. All the mounting points (on the sides and beneath the seat) seem to be identical.




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Old 12-01-2011, 02:53 PM   #1147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schattat View Post
AFAIK the new Husky/BMW hyrbrid runs the 26L subframe tank that MecaSystems offers for the Honda CRF450X. All the mounting points (on the sides and beneath the seat) seem to be identical.
Wow !!!



... should we let BC61 know?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=173

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Old 12-01-2011, 04:29 PM   #1148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huskyte610e View Post
Wow !!!



... should we let BC61 know?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=173

Nope, he runs a REAL Husky :) Above is a BMW (on steriods :))
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:43 PM   #1149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehdutchie View Post
Nope, he runs a REAL Husky :) Above is a BMW (on steriods :))
So, the CRF rear tank will suit a G450X frame, but not the TE449 frame.

... my list of interchangeble brand bike parts, just got another disclaimer.
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Old 12-01-2011, 05:26 PM   #1150
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The Speedbrain BMW frames pictured above have been highly modified. The rear down tube is at a different angle, the rear shock is mounted differently and the rear swing arm now has a linkage that is different than the Husqvarna.

I'd love to have had the time and resources for trial and error of adapting other kits.
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Old 12-01-2011, 05:42 PM   #1151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC61 View Post
The Speedbrain BMW frames pictured above have been highly modified. The rear down tube is at a different angle, the rear shock is mounted differently and the rear swing arm now has a linkage that is different than the Husqvarna.

I'd love to have had the time and resources for trial and error of adapting other kits.
How's the bike coming along Bill ?

30 more days until go time
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Old 12-01-2011, 06:08 PM   #1152
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Getting closer, still have all the added electronics to wire up, plumb the extra tanks then take it all apart again for final assembly.
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Old 12-01-2011, 06:30 PM   #1153
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No rush, lots of time left

See ya in a few weeks
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:46 AM   #1154
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Question It does what-a-who which way now...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 690RR View Post
And one interesting thing, this engines turns wrong way, which means, when you twist throttle on normal bike, rear will be forced down, when you do it with Husky, rear lifts up and affects traction.
I've read through that one three trimes now Eskil... and I'm still not quite sure what you mean... Care to give it another shot for us...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by doyle View Post
Wouldn't it be more the mass/forces of the rear wheel affecting the torque/direction of force rather than the relatively light engine internals. Quite obviously the rear wheel turns in the 'normal' direction. (unless that Husky is a handful in reverse.)
+1... yep, that's what I am trying to grasp also... 690RR's explanation seem's sort of "backwards" to me... I'll explain;


Regardless of the design configuration of the engine (right side/leftside output shaft) or the rotational direction of the internal components of the engine - the countershaft sprocket turns and drives the chain in a direction so as to rotate the rear wheel and provide forward motion (otherwise - as Doyle pointed out - you'd disappear backwards of the start podium fairly rapidly! ).

The forces exhibited on the rear wheel by the drive train - torque - affect the rotational mass of the rear wheel; which in turn has an effect the rear suspension. If you turn the throttle and increase the rotational torque of the rear wheel, this has the effect of forcing the rear wheel down - raising the rear suspension... If you chop the throttle and decrease the rotational speed of the rear wheel (decrease torque) this in fact causes the rear suspension compress slightly.

There is a common missaprehension that increased torque causes the rear suspension to compress; which is not the case. Under acceleration the rear suspension of a motorcycle does compress significantly (coincidently, the front rises*)... but this is due to the simple transfer of the weight bias (mostly the rider) for or aft. *Conversely - the opposite is true under braking (where the rear tends to lift and the front compresses).

The effect that drivetrain torque exhibits over the compression/rebound characteristics of the rear suspension IS one of the major factors that Horst Leitner's patented AMP Link system attempted to address and is one of the things that BMW's G 450X swingarm axle mount/countershaft drive system also is designed to remedy.

But as to why the Husqvarna seemingly defies physics and does the reverse is a mystery to me... but most likely a wording missunderstanding or I am missing something in 690RR's explanation?
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:10 AM   #1155
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torque effect?
go for a fang in an old swing axle vw beetle/baja/buggy/country buggy that has the conventional setup and then go for a fang in one that has reduction hubs fitted such that the transaxle spins in "reverse".

under throttle the conventional one squats while the one with the reduction hubs stands up.... to its stops.

dont know what this proves but it did remind me of many happy times fanging the old volksies.

RE the bmw/husky, i thought having the pivot and the cs at the same point just minimised the torque effect (squatting under accell). no idea really.
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