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Old 06-29-2012, 10:26 AM   #1381
JMo (& piglet)
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Now this on the other hand, is a beautiful body wrapped around a WR engine...



(photo robbed from Facebook earlier today)

Jx

PS. Talking of Facebook, please do check out my new-look Jennydakar.com page: www.facebook.com/JennyDakar there and 'Like' it as they say, as I'll be updating my 2013 prep there, along with a new dedicated thread here on ADVrider of course!
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:39 AM   #1382
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Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet) View Post
Hee hee - I can see a yellow high level fender fitting right in there!

As for the WR reliability - the engine is basically unchanged from the previous generation (it is not the reverse cylinder type used on the YZF), simply with the addition of EFi... so it is the same bullet-proof lump essentially.

I can certainly vouch for Yamaha's EFi reliability and fueling on the XT660Z Tenere - it was seamless right off the bottom, and I rode one across the USA and back again in 2008 - over 21,000 miles from way below sea-level to the top of Pikes Peak - and it was utterly reliable in every sense. I then took the same bike (with some upgraded suspension) from Paris to Dakar in 2009, again utterly faultless...

I think these days the Japanese manufacturers [Well, Yamaha and Honda at least] have got EFi totally sorted.

Jx

Followed your Heroes & Legends rally writeup a few years ago. For some reason I'd forgotten that the XT660Z was EFI.

I know that the EFI on the WR250R's that are sold here is pretty reliable, guess I can't imagine why it'd be an issue. However, if there's a weak spot on any kind of bike, the Dakar will find it.

Been considering doing one of the smaller one or two-day stage rallies here in the US. I've followed Rally for a while now from a spectator's perspective, but I really have no idea where to start. I've been smitten with getting a KTM450 or 530 and putting on a simple rally kit like the one C.Vestal built for Neduro's Dakar bike last year, however the WR450 seems like it could be a good alternative (and a bit less expensive).
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:01 AM   #1383
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Originally Posted by dox View Post
Been considering doing one of the smaller one or two-day stage rallies here in the US. I've followed Rally for a while now from a spectator's perspective, but I really have no idea where to start. I've been smitten with getting a KTM450 or 530 and putting on a simple rally kit like the one C.Vestal built for Neduro's Dakar bike last year, however the WR450 seems like it could be a good alternative (and a bit less expensive).
Without a doubt Ned's bike was an excellent example of KISS rally bike building, and there are a lot of options for EXC based 'rally-lite' bikes now...

However, if you want to build a race bike without having to tear into the engine at all before you start, I'd say the Yamaha WR450 is the puppy - a great number of Dakar (and shorter rally) riders have finished on the same engine, which I think is testament to it's inherent strength, especially in these days of lightweight enduro-based racers? In fact, unless you're an animal, I'd be surprised if you had to open up a WR engine at all for a whole season of shorter rally style events...

The 2012 WR (EFi version) does have a new frame, so getting the previous generation (07-11) tanks and stuff to fit will need a degree of creativity I imagine, however, if you are looking to build something for shorter distance events, you can pick up a new 2011 model (carb) WR450F at very good money at the moment, and there are a number of easy ways to build a rally-like bike similar to those used in Sardinia this past week...

For example, Aqualine do a 15L front and 5L rear Safari tank which would be ample fuel (they also do a 10L rear tank to order, however, you have to reroute the exhaust silencer lower down with that version, the 5L fits with the stock exhaust position)...

There are any number of rally skid-plates available for the 07-11 WR - personally I'll be using the new Rally Raid Products (RRP) skid plate with water tank on my 2013 Dakar bike - it is very similar to the one they make for the KTM690 btw.

As for Navigation, if all you need is an IMO and Roadbook combo (you can mount a GPS on the bars/riser with a RAM mount for example), then again RRP make a lovely billet aluminium 'universal' setup that bolts directly to the bar clamps, and sits all the nav gear just above the stock headlight on an enduro bike - the set comes complete with IMO, F2R roadbook and remote control ,and a simple wiring loom to connect direct to the battery.

With that little lot, you are pretty much good to go - although if you are going to be racing any night stages, do upgrade the stock headlight - either with an HID, or a pair of Vision-X solstice LED lights which offer amazing performance for the price, and draw only 10w each!

Hope that helps anyone considering a budget build...

Jx
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:21 AM   #1384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet) View Post
Without a doubt Ned's bike was an excellent example of KISS rally bike building, and there are a lot of options for EXC based 'rally-lite' bikes now...

However, if you want to build a race bike without having to tear into the engine at all before you start, I'd say the Yamaha WR450 is the puppy - a great number of Dakar (and shorter rally) riders have finished on the same engine, which I think is testament to it's inherent strength, especially in these days of lightweight enduro-based racers? In fact, unless you're an animal, I'd be surprised if you had to open up a WR engine at all for a whole season of shorter rally style events...

The 2012 WR (EFi version) does have a new frame, so getting the previous generation (07-11) tanks and stuff to fit will need a degree of creativity I imagine, however, if you are looking to build something for shorter distance events, you can pick up a new 2011 model (carb) WR450F at very good money at the moment, and there are a number of easy ways to build a rally-like bike similar to those used in Sardinia this past week...

For example, Aqualine do a 15L front and 5L rear Safari tank which would be ample fuel (they also do a 10L rear tank to order, however, you have to reroute the exhaust silencer lower down with that version, the 5L fits with the stock exhaust position)...

There are any number of rally skid-plates available for the 07-11 WR - personally I'll be using the new Rally Raid Products (RRP) skid plate with water tank on my 2013 Dakar bike - it is very similar to the one they make for the KTM690 btw.

As for Navigation, if all you need is an IMO and Roadbook combo (you can mount a GPS on the bars/riser with a RAM mount for example), then again RRP make a lovely billet aluminium 'universal' setup that bolts directly to the bar clamps, and sits all the nav gear just above the stock headlight on an enduro bike - the set comes complete with IMO, F2R roadbook and remote control ,and a simple wiring loom to connect direct to the battery.

With that little lot, you are pretty much good to go - although if you are going to be racing any night stages, do upgrade the stock headlight - either with an HID, or a pair of Vision-X solstice LED lights which offer amazing performance for the price, and draw only 10w each!

Hope that helps anyone considering a budget build...

Jx
Simplicity is key, the budget may be an issue as well but the bank probably won't mind helping out a little

I suppose the reality of it would be this: Want to build a bike that would be capable of doing a couple of rallies over the next few years, short and easy ones... but largely would be used for reliable & preferably low-maintenance dual sport / DS touring.

Admittedly, I also lust for a bike with a rally fairing.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:24 AM   #1385
JMo (& piglet)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dox View Post
Admittedly, I also lust for a bike with a rally fairing.
Hee hee - yep, they are great - until you drop it on a rock x

It is surprising how different a dirtbike feels with even just a cockpit fairing attached - and you probably saw in Sardina this year that most of the 'rally' bikes on that event still use the stock enduro style headlight mask and the navigation gear mounted on a plate above - directly to the top of the handlebar clamps rather than on a tower bolted to the front of the headstock?

Personally, I would start your build that way (especially as you don't need to factor in the position and location of a lot of the big heavy nav gear you need/use for FIM type events) and see how you get on... you can always add a front upper fairing and tower style cockpit support afterwards - there are a number of front rally fairing kits available, either universal fit or specific for the shape of front tank you'd be using, that will create a more traditional rally bike look and protection for yourself and the cockpit area...

Jx
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:57 AM   #1386
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Quick question: How many KTM 450RR did not have their engines changed during the dakar this year and finished?

I know Erik Kofman is one and Liebheber is another.


In Other news Honda are going to have a factory team in the Dakar. This is going to be interesting to watch.
http://world.honda.com/news/2012/c12...lly/index.html
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Bluebull2007 screwed with this post 07-02-2012 at 05:30 AM
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:04 AM   #1387
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Originally Posted by Bluebull2007 View Post
In Other news Honda are going to have a factory team in the Dakar. This is going to be interesting to watch.
http://world.honda.com/news/2012/c12...lly/index.html


Helder Rodrigues is going to ride a Honda now?! I think it's great that he is being recognized by a factory effort. So when will we see him for the 1st time on the red bike?

Congratz also to Sam Sunderland, now a factory rider as well.

It's gonna be a great year!

Edit: WTF, there's alreadya thread growing on this one, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=804950
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:23 PM   #1388
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Helder Rodrigues is going to ride a Honda now?! I think it's great that he is being recognized by a factory effort. So when will we see him for the 1st time on the red bike?

Congratz also to Sam Sunderland, now a factory rider as well.

It's gonna be a great year!

Edit: WTF, there's alreadya thread growing on this one, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=804950
i think we are outside the circle, ou boet
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:32 PM   #1389
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Honda to participate in the 2013 Dakar Rally

July 2, 2012 - Honda has announced its intention to participate as a works team in the motorcycle class in the Dakar Rally to be held in January 2013 in South America, travelling north to south through Peru, Chile and Argentina. Honda competed nine times in the motorcycle class in the forerunner of the present Dakar Rally, the Paris-Dakar Rally, from 1981 through to 1989, and was a winner five times during that period. It has been 24 years since it last participated in the Rally.
Image sketch

The Honda team, to be called Team HRC, will include Portuguese rider Helder Rodrigues, who took third place in the 2012 Dakar Rally, and Brazilian Felipe Zanol, who brings a wealth of experience in motocross and enduro race events, as well as Sam Sunderland (United Kingdom) and Javier Pizzolito (Argentina). They will ride a prototype machine developed and produced by the Motorcycle R&D Center at Honda R&D. The prototype machine is based on the CRF450X, the popular worldwide enduro racing model that combines ease of handling with superior competitive strength. Kit parts designed for use on the standard CRF450X model have also been developed and will be made available to a limited number of teams.
Tetsuo Suzuki, President, Honda Racing Corporation, commented “The Dakar requires competitors to cover several hundred kilometers per day for more than two weeks. It needs a totally different type of vehicle from events such as motocross, trials and road races. Honda has put a great deal of effort into designing and building a powerful and winning machine. We are aiming for the championship from this first year.”



http://world.honda.com/news/2012/c12...lly/index.html


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Old 07-03-2012, 08:27 AM   #1390
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I suppose the reality of it would be this: Want to build a bike that would be capable of doing a couple of rallies over the next few years, short and easy ones... but largely would be used for reliable & preferably low-maintenance dual sport / DS touring.
I think a lot of us have this in mind, and to me, there are two bikes that potentially fit the criteria- the Yamaha WR450 and the KTM 450/530 EXC. Both are relatively cheap, proven, simple, etc.

For me, the KTM gets the nod between the two based on accessory availability. The rallymotokit setup is as inexpensive as it gets in the world of rally, and anything you can think of for the rest of the bike exists somewhere in the world.


In other news, really excited to see Honda enter the fray with some commitment. The race will be better for more manufacturer involvement.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:51 AM   #1391
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I think a lot of us have this in mind, and to me, there are two bikes that potentially fit the criteria- the Yamaha WR450 and the KTM 450/530 EXC. Both are relatively cheap, proven, simple, etc.

For me, the KTM gets the nod between the two based on accessory availability. The rallymotokit setup is as inexpensive as it gets in the world of rally, and anything you can think of for the rest of the bike exists somewhere in the world.
How many does c.vestal have on hand? On the Rally Moto Kit thread it sounded like he was only going to make 10 or 15 kits and that would be the end of production. Was thinking about getting the Adventure kit if I could find a suitable bike, but figured they might sell out before I could get around to it in the fall/winter.
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:08 PM   #1392
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How many does c.vestal have on hand? On the Rally Moto Kit thread it sounded like he was only going to make 10 or 15 kits and that would be the end of production. Was thinking about getting the Adventure kit if I could find a suitable bike, but figured they might sell out before I could get around to it in the fall/winter.
I think they will make them to order, so it may take a little while after you commit to one for it to show up, but they are available.
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:45 PM   #1393
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I've been working a little on my 525 taking it down from a full Dakar build (from '08) and turning it into a daily driver/rally lite build. I've been lacking time and $$ so it's taking awhile. I'm figuring it will do any rally I may choose easily and it will hold up fine in the ultra rocky terrain where I live. The Meca Systems kit does not like falling over in rocks at all.
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:26 AM   #1394
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The Meca Systems kit does not like falling over in rocks at all.
That's a big reason why I chose not to race the old Jonah bike I had.

To me, most of the rally builds out there are not a good option if you like more technical terrain than the Dakar features, they are find for fast sand, but too fussy/ delicate/ expensive/ failure-prone for real hardcore use where you're not going to be around a paid mechanic every night.

What I saw of the JVO stuff made me think it was even worse than the Meca stuff in this regard, but I'm curious if anyone owns one and has given it a good flogging not in a race setting.

One thing is for sure- the subframe gas tanks lend themselves to some very sleek/ beautiful designs!
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:32 AM   #1395
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with ya on that ned.. think I would prefer aluminum rear tanks over plastico..
but they do sure look good!
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