ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Beasts
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-04-2013, 11:48 AM   #15226
WARRIORPRINCEJJ
Not in the clique...
 
WARRIORPRINCEJJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: South Central Texas
Oddometer: 9,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
Amen to that, Bruddah! Amen!

One thing, though... Don't let Pluric see those shots of that Super Tenere in the sand. He'll crash his office chair just watchin' it!

Dallara

~

"I've fallen, and I can't get-up..." pluric





.
__________________
I spent all my money on motorcycles, 4X4's, whiskey, and women...The rest I just wasted. (edited to fit/original phrase by "WIBO")

"There's a WEALTH of cool people and knowledge on ADV, there's also a decent sized pocket of douche bag assholes that think their ADV forum Post Count (Oddometer) is their badge at being experienced riders." goodcat8
WARRIORPRINCEJJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 12:02 PM   #15227
Dallara
Creaks When Walks...
 
Dallara's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: South Texas
Oddometer: 1,760
Question A question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
Our local KTM/Yamaha dealer has sold out all his 990's & Tenere's. GS's are like arseholes, everybody has one. All my BMW's were garage whores. Always at the dealer for recalls or warranty work. My 3 KTM's never saw the dealer after I bought them. (two 950's & 990)

Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind my asking...

How many miles did you put on each of the KTM's?

Thanks1

Dallara



~
__________________
~

You never see a motorcycle parked outside a psychiatrist's office

~
Dallara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 12:04 PM   #15228
Gryphon12
Beastly Adventurer
 
Gryphon12's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Carnation, WA USA
Oddometer: 1,284
Forgive my ignorance here, but as I recall, Yamaha didn't release the S-10 in North American. We weren't on their radar as a market. They had no intention of taking on BMW here. We BEGGED Yamaha to bring it here, and they didn't. They treated the S-10 like the initial FJR sales in NA - you had to pre-order it. Then, finally, Yamaha began to ship inventory stock (of FJR's) to the US and Canada (after 3 or 4 years???).

So, the S-10 never had an advertising budget or marketing campaign in NA because they were just meeting the (by Yamaha standards) "small demand" without the added expense of marketing. They don't expect to sell large numbers of the bike here; they really aren't trying to challenge the BMW R1200GS in this market. So even when those of us who buy it really love it, Yamaha gets a self-fulfilling prophecy of not selling many units.

It is a matter of corporate expectations, or perhaps "corporate blinders". They don't see themselves as an ADV manufacturer in NA. We only get the WRR/X, not the 250 Tenere (made where? Brazil?), or the 660 Tenere (made in Italy, so the cost of production is relatively high if they were to ship the NA, but shipping is relatively low in the local target market of the EU). If all of the S-10 production capacity (world-wide) is already consumed, then Yamaha doesn't want higher demand in NA, and I'll bet that Yamaha is selling every unit that they can build in other markets - a lone 2012 sitting for 9 months in Texas notwithstanding (what is that dealer's phone number again?).

Just my $.02. I hope that Yamaha changes their attitude in NA, because they alone have all the pieces on the board to really change the game. And new triples on the way, on top of that! I believe that Yamaha needs a broader, but no less sharp, focus on sub-markets in NA. But maybe they are just too busy to care right now.
__________________
1990 Honda NT-650 Hawk-GT

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world;
indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
Gryphon12 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 12:34 PM   #15229
~TABASCO~
www.rideonadv.com
 
~TABASCO~'s Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Tejas
Oddometer: 372
The 660 would be very cool here in the USA, but has to compete with the V-strom's in price... That's going to be tuff..
__________________
www.rideonadv.com
We are ADV, everyday.
~TABASCO~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 12:43 PM   #15230
MariusD
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Metairie, near New Orleans
Oddometer: 534
Dallara: Your post was longwinded, with a lot of content but I have no idea where you're going with any of it. If you don't see the difference between low volume specialty products and commoditiezed large volume products, then this is a very difficult discussion to have with you. The next time you can pick up a Tenere next to the bubble gum at your local convenience store check out, you let me know. This isn't about dance moves, although I admit, mine are pretty good.

Gryphon12: . What you say actually helps to make sense out of the way Yamaha introduced the S10 onto our market. It does seem like maybe Yamaha is quietly testing the waters in this niche bike segment. That's some interesting new information, you got me intriqued, I'll have to see if there's any additional info out about that.

MariusD screwed with this post 01-04-2013 at 12:54 PM
MariusD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 12:51 PM   #15231
pluric
Gimpy Adventurer
 
pluric's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Salt Lake
Oddometer: 16,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by WARRIORPRINCEJJ View Post
"I've fallen, and I can't get-up..." pluric





.
Here we go again. I don't know if you can get the lid back on this can of whoop ass.


pluric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 01:12 PM   #15232
jaumev
Beastly Adventurer
 
jaumev's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Barcelona
Oddometer: 1,471
Quote:
Originally Posted by MariusD View Post
You're not comparing apples to apples.

Advertising does come into play when you have a high volume product in a very highly competetive undustry (fast food, beer, banking, autos). But that doesn't apply to a market like the adv bikes.

It's possible that bmw produces many more bikes than yamaha in this class, so they have to make sure they move them all in a timely fashion, thus they advertise.

My point wasn't that if a product is being advertised it isn't a best seller. I'm just impressed that the tenere has not NEEDED advertising so far to be successful.
Are you sure is succesful?
In Spain if you ordered a GS you has to wait some months to have it. If you want a S10 you can ride it immediatelly. Lots of them siting in the dealers...
jaumev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 01:17 PM   #15233
Wreckchecker
Ungeneer to broked stuff.
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Damascus, MD
Oddometer: 2,360
Rule #1 of advertising is that the money is spent on where a profit will bring the money back.

The profit in the North American market is in cruisers.
Which we are not.
__________________
Super Tenere & WR250R, AMA, IBA
Wreckchecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 01:30 PM   #15234
pluric
Gimpy Adventurer
 
pluric's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Salt Lake
Oddometer: 16,092
The GS series also has a 20 year history of pretty much the only game in town.

People still call snowmobiles "Ski-doos" because of the early history of production.

How many times have you had to explain what a Tenere is even to bike owners?
As long as the aftermarket and parts suppliers cover ownership needs who cares
if it's a record setting sales bike? Just nice to have the options available. No one
motorcycle genre will ever fill the needs of riders. True enthusiasts will always keep
up on what is available in the market place. The rest can always ask the salesman
the quarter mile speed or can I get extra chrome with that?
pluric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 01:39 PM   #15235
Deuce
Crazy Canuck
 
Deuce's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver Island, Bitchin' Columbia, Canada
Oddometer: 2,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind my asking...How many miles did you put on each of the KTM's? Thanks1
Dallara ~
The two 950's had 80k ('05) & 70k kms ('06) & the 990 ('11) only 3k kms. The only reason we sold 'em was to pay off some debt. We will be getting the new 1190 when it hits our shores in the next year or two. Personally I would rather have an S10 but the Missus loves her KTM's. We are going to share one bike for now. Later I will get an S10 and she can have the 1190.

I loved my BMW's but just got tired of the maintenance on them. I have owned over a dozen (Airheads & Oilheads) so my experience is not just from owning one lemon ( '04 1200GS).

The S10 suits my type of riding and maintenance requirements. Gas and go is what I am after. No chain to adjust etc. I fix shit all day at work so don't want to have to do it on my days off.
__________________
I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost.
-- Winnie the Pooh
Deuce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 01:48 PM   #15236
Dallara
Creaks When Walks...
 
Dallara's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: South Texas
Oddometer: 1,760
Laugh More tap dancing... With an insult added, too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MariusD View Post
Dallara: Your post was longwinded, with a lot of content but I have no idea where you're going with any of it. If you don't see the difference between low volume specialty products and commoditiezed large volume products, then this is a very difficult discussion to have with you. The next time you can pick up a Tenere next to the bubble gum at your local convenience store check out, you let me know. This isn't about dance moves, although I admit, mine are pretty good.

BMW's aren't sold in convenience stores, either... Nor are Gold Wing's, Ford trucks, or Toyota Camry's.

Your contention is that the Super Tenere has been "successful" despite not being advertised, but you are making a rather large assumption about it being "successful", at least in North America. We actually don't know that yet. 2013 will be the year where it will sell without the PDP program - i.e. where Yamaha will not have each one produced already paid for. This will be the year that tells the tale whether it will remain in Yamaha's line-up in North America.

A similar situation occurred with Harley-Davidson and the XR1200. They sold them in Europe in 2008, and magazines, etc. clamored to bring the model to the USA. Harley did, but with an initial "pre-order" program of only 750 as 2009 models. All were paid in advance, and Harley never made any guarantees there would be any more of them. Those first 750 US models sold out, so Harley made the model a regular in the line-up for 2010, but they didn't advertise it a bit, choosing to ignore it while they promoted the rest of their line-up. The bike was arguably the best street bike Harley ever built, and certainly expanded them into market territory that was new to the H-D label - naked sportbikes - and it was a very good one, too. One the press raved about and applauded Harley bringing here...

But it languished in the showroom, much like Buell's did. Harley kept in the line-up for 2011 and 2012, but now it has disappeared from US shores. Why? Well, an awful lot of very smart folks seem to think it's because Harley didn't advertise or promote it.

And all the while the entire BMW brand operates in a niche bubble, and its best selling bike in the US (and the world) operates in an even tinier niche of the motorcycle market - and they advertise the hell out of it. And it outsells all of its competition, dominating that niche.

You can continue to try to present an erroneous conclusion with short, sweeping, vague platitudes, but they don't prove your point. How about an example or two, in the motorcycle marketplace, to prove up your premise?

After all, we want to compare apples to apples here, right? Not Super Tenere's to chewing gum...


Dallara



~
__________________
~

You never see a motorcycle parked outside a psychiatrist's office

~

Dallara screwed with this post 01-04-2013 at 03:27 PM
Dallara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 01:57 PM   #15237
Gryphon12
Beastly Adventurer
 
Gryphon12's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Carnation, WA USA
Oddometer: 1,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by MariusD View Post
Gryphon12: . What you say actually helps to make sense out of the way Yamaha introduced the S10 onto our market. It does seem like maybe Yamaha is quietly testing the waters in this niche bike segment. That's some interesting new information, you got me intriqued, I'll have to see if there's any additional info out about that.
Marius, go back to the early pages of this thread - you'll find all that you need, and more.
__________________
1990 Honda NT-650 Hawk-GT

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world;
indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
Gryphon12 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 01:58 PM   #15238
ballheadknuckle
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ballheadknuckle's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
So the question is this...

Have any of you folks out there, anywhere in the world, heard of any major failures of a Super Tenere?

I'm not talking about crash damage, or busted sumps from poor skid plates (or no skid plates). No, I mean any *MAJOR*, catastrophic failures - the kind that means the bikes goes home on the tow truck or a trailer. Engine component failures, blown up final drives, exploding gearboxes, fragged clutches, busted frames, snapped swingarms, etc., etc., etc.
In germany some of the first edition bikes had problems with the cam chain tensioner. It reportely develops a ticking noise when it goes bad. They all got it replaced under warranty.
I don't know of a case where this had lead to a catastrophic failure, but if the cam chain tensioner fails it is a major failure.

Apart from that there was a recall for the luggage rack (the small metal piece on the inside was inserted) and for the spokes they went from "check" to the "torque them to spec" instruction.

ballheadknuckle screwed with this post 01-04-2013 at 02:06 PM
ballheadknuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 02:09 PM   #15239
Deuce
Crazy Canuck
 
Deuce's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver Island, Bitchin' Columbia, Canada
Oddometer: 2,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
And all the while the entire BMW brand operates in a niche bubble, and it's best selling bike in the US (and the world) operates in an even tinier niche of the motorcycle market - and they advertise the hell out of it.
Dallara~
BMW also has the advantage of cheap financing. Right now you can 2.95% on left over ''11 & '12 Beemer's here in Canada. The '13 models are available for 5.95%. Most banks here want at least 7-8% for a loan. Makes a difference on a + $20g bike.
__________________
I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost.
-- Winnie the Pooh
Deuce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 02:49 PM   #15240
GrahamD
Beastly Adventurer
 
GrahamD's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Blue Mnts Ozstralia
Oddometer: 5,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaumev View Post


Very funny but...

Price is not an excuse. This is s 15.000 bike!!
Where I live you have to pay a premium for serious problems
__________________
"It's better to ride a boring bike than push an interesting one" ... Canuman

"I just may as well admit that my other bikes are toast. I don't ride them. Plain and simple. I didn't want this. It wasn't the plan." - snakebitten
GrahamD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014