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Old 04-13-2011, 10:37 AM   #7831
Dallara
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Cool2 Shop Supplies & "Sundries"...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocca View Post

Amused to see that "sundries" appears to be a piece of nonsense appended to service bills the world over, Bundu...there's not even a chain to lube.

Hang on though - did they drop the final drive oil?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wreckchecker View Post

Expensive shop rags, washing for customer pick-up, and beer for the shop crew's lunch.


As a former motorcycle dealer I have to say I have no problem with a shop charging me for shop supplies (called "sundries" in this case). I know what it used to cost me for a shop rag service, various chemicals like contact cleaner, silicone spray, and general purpose spray lubes, having to wash bikes that were too dirty to work on properly, parts cleaner vats, maintenance on lifts, maintenance of air compressors, used oil disposal, electricity, etc., etc., etc., etc.

$20 bucks (131.58 ZAR = $19.37 USD currently) certainly doesn't seem out of line to me, especially if it's a good, fair dealer with reasonable labor rates ($38.74 USD per hour in this case).

Just my two cents... YMMV.

Dallara


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Old 04-13-2011, 11:54 AM   #7832
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I'm not suggesting that the cost is inflated; merely that "sundries" is a piece of opaque silliness used to present the hourly rate (labour charge) in a more favourable light. In most lines of business, the hourly rate is calculated to include overheads and incidentals. Motor traders, certainly in the larger cities where I live, will pitch their labour rates lower than competitors to attract service custom - only to recoup the supposed saving through itemised add-ons for oil disposal, sundries, etc...

rocca screwed with this post 04-13-2011 at 12:08 PM
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:35 PM   #7833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MATHI4424 View Post
Hi guys i am riding XT1200 in my country with a climate of 34 degrees so i would like to know what is the ideal engine oil to use for my tenere? can anyone guide me

cheers
I use Rotella T Synthetic in me bikes (5 W 40) and without friction modifiers. It is now labeled T-6 and in blue plastic jugs. I'll use it in the Super Tenere just as I do in the FJR and ST1300.

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Old 04-14-2011, 02:18 AM   #7834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundu View Post
Do the items charged for my 10 000km service tie up with what one should expect in 10 000km service on the S10? I thought the costs were reasonable...
The labour rate by Aussie standards is cheap !!! Works out to about $37AUD per hour the shop I work for charge about $80AUD per hour. The oil filter is about on par with here the sundries charge is a bit excessive by what we charge in our shop, but it does very depending on what has been done during the service. I can't account for what they have charged different country so cost of certain lubricants etc will very.
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Old 04-14-2011, 05:51 AM   #7835
Tee Dee Mmm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
~





Really? Do you have any links, etc. with more about this? I'd love to read and hear more about that kind of info...

Thanks!

Dallara



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http://www.donaldsontoolbox.com.au/s...ir-filter.html

This article is based on paper elements used in trucks etc but a paper filter is a paper filter and when I first heard of this was a sticker placed on the air filter housing of one of our Aussie made performance cars and it noted basically the same note that the air filter gets more better as it gets dirty.


Don't waste your money or your time, or abuse your engine by overservicing


Air filter service life should be determined by measuring airflow restriction, no one can tell when to service by visual inspection alone.

While new Donaldson® air filters provide good engine protection, a Donaldson® air filter that has been in service for a period of time works even better than a new one. Reason being the paper media in the filter is porous to allow air to pass through it on its way to the engine. As dirty air passes through the filter, contaminant is caught in the media and begins plugging some of the pores.

As more dirty air enters the intake system, previously trapped contaminant helps to filter out even smaller particles, making the filter even more efficient at preventing new contaminant from entering the engine... the dirt particles become part of the filtering process. This is referred to as barrier filtration.

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Old 04-14-2011, 06:48 AM   #7836
Paulvt1
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Fitted a Fender extender and crap flap. Hope to keep the motor nice and clean now.

http://www.pyramid-plastics.co.uk/ca...oducts_id=2770

http://yambits.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1150
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Old 04-14-2011, 06:52 AM   #7837
Mugatu
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Weakness?

I did have an "incident" with my S10:
- day 1: didn't want to start, starter was firing (always felt a bit weak from new though I have to say); put battery to charge for the day; battery fully charged when coming back from work in the evening
- day 2: same goes again when I want to start it up in the morning. Don't want to mess with it as it's under warranty. Dealer comes to pick it up with the truck
- day 3: back on the S10 with new spark plugs (because of too much fuel on them from the unsuccessful attempts at starting the bike

All that was free of charge, but still seems strange to be in a situation where the battery is loosing it's charge as the bike gets used everyday.
I don't have any electrical accessories plugged in either (appart from the OEM heating grips and fog lights that are scarcely used at this time of year).
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Old 04-14-2011, 07:00 AM   #7838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugatu View Post
I did have an "incident" with my S10:
- day 1: didn't want to start, starter was firing (always felt a bit weak from new though I have to say); put battery to charge for the day; battery fully charged when coming back from work in the evening
- day 2: same goes again when I want to start it up in the morning. Don't want to mess with it as it's under warranty. Dealer comes to pick it up with the truck
- day 3: back on the S10 with new spark plugs (because of too much fuel on them from the unsuccessful attempts at starting the bike

All that was free of charge, but still seems strange to be in a situation where the battery is loosing it's charge as the bike gets used everyday.
I don't have any electrical accessories plugged in either (appart from the OEM heating grips and fog lights that are scarcely used at this time of year).
Was the battery replaced?
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Old 04-14-2011, 07:55 AM   #7839
Mugatu
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Nope!
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Old 04-14-2011, 11:46 AM   #7840
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Air Filtration 101

There used to be some good general articles on the net about different types of air filters, but they've been drowned out by all the K&N, Amsoil, etc. propaganda now. There were also some good filtration articles in the motorcycle press, but they don't have the money/time to do much technical research these days.

Some knowledge of the principles involved helps in assessing the tradeoffs.

Paper filters work as you expect by a straining mechanism - the paper fibers lie very close to one another and prevent particles bigger than the gaps from passing. As the filter loads, the gaps get filled, leaving fewer and fewer gaps and smaller and smaller gaps. So filtering efficiency actually improves as the filter loads - the filter catches smaller and smaller particles. But the pressure loss across the filter also increases affecting performance and on older fueling systems, typically causes the engine to start running richer.

Oiled foam and gauze filters work by an entirely different principle - impingement. Dust particles are heavier than air so they can't make the twists and turns to get through the filter without impinging on the foam or gauze fibers which are spaced MUCH more widely than a paper filter. If the place where they hit a fiber is coated with oil, the particle sticks to the fiber and is captured. But if there is no oil at the spot of impingement, the particle bounces off and continues on. Foam filters rely on "defense in depth" - while a paper filter is thin and pleated to create more surface area, foam filters are thick to provide more depth so that the chances of a particle hitting an oiled fiber is greater. This is why oiled filters are most efficient when brand new and freshly oiled - their efficiency drops continually as they load in service and the oil is consumed in stopping particles. This is also why an oiled filter doesn't suffer any pressure loss as it loads - it just stops filtering.

Based on this, you can see why paper filters are used in street bikes and foam filters in dirt bikes. Paper prioritizes engine protection above everything else which is good for a higher-mileage street bike, but performance does tend to drop off in service and replacement is prohibitively expensive if you have to do it often. Again, a street bike doesn't tend to see enough dust that the expense or performance degradation is an issue. OTOH, foam allows for cheap and frequent servicing which better suits a dirt bike that sees a lot of dust. But if you neglect servicing, you're essentially running the bike without filters. In general, a paper filter will always filter better, but if you keep after servicing, you can do a very adequate job with oiled foam. But paper is MUCH more tolerant of neglect.

Heavy equipment used at construction sites often have three levels of filtration to take advantage of the strengths of different methods. There is a cyclonic cleaner at the beginning to catch the big rocks, a frequently-serviced oiled-foam in the second stage to get the medium-sized stuff, and a infrequently-serviced pleated paper element for final filtration of very fine particles.

Bringing this back to the S10, if you ride mostly street, the stock S10's paper element is probably optimal and is safe for the engine, but engine performance may start to suffer on day two or three of a dirt tour if you're riding at the back of the pack of riders exploring dusty roads. And carrying an extra filter or two would be both expensive and a PITA. Subing-out for oiled foam would be better for dirt riding, but you'd certainly want to have extra oiled filters in your kit or a way to clean the filters - the bike wouldn't give you any warning as it slowly ate itself to death.

- Mark

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Old 04-14-2011, 12:36 PM   #7841
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Handlebar Diameter

I have been searching for the diameter of the handlebars so that I can order some heated grips. Can someone tell me if they are 7/8" or 1"? Thanks for your time!
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Old 04-14-2011, 02:31 PM   #7842
dcstrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
Bringing this back to the S10, if you ride mostly street, the stock S10's paper element is probably optimal and is safe for the engine, but engine performance may start to suffer on day two or three of a dirt tour if you're riding at the back of the pack of riders exploring dusty roads. And carrying an extra filter or two would be both expensive and a PITA. Subing-out for oiled foam would be better for dirt riding, but you'd certainly want to have extra oiled filters in your kit or a way to clean the filters - the bike wouldn't give you any warning as it slowly ate itself to death.

- Mark
Thanks for this Mark - good summary.

Yes life is full of compromises... I guess that's where something like the K&N comes in eh? Flows a bit more air than paper when clean and freshly oiled (but also a bit more dirt according to reports) but when it's been used for a while the pores start to block with dust and it acts more like a paper filter. The advantage over paper is of course instead of replacing you just clean it and start again. And the advantage over oiled foam is that it requires less servicing and won't stop filtering when full of dust - it will just flow less air.

Sound right?

I have a K&N in my 80k mile Strom and if I want it to filter better I just service it less frequently!

Trevor
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:17 PM   #7843
dcstrom
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Originally Posted by Chadster View Post
I have been searching for the diameter of the handlebars so that I can order some heated grips. Can someone tell me if they are 7/8" or 1"? Thanks for your time!
I'm pretty sure only Harleys have 1" bars?
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:23 PM   #7844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadster View Post
I have been searching for the diameter of the handlebars so that I can order some heated grips. Can someone tell me if they are 7/8" or 1"? Thanks for your time!
They are 7/8". I put Oxford ones on mine, however the controller failed on me a couple of days ago after a bit of rain.
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:40 PM   #7845
dcstrom
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Shinko 705's on Super Tenere

People have said these Shinko's aren't available in Europe, and I think Wasp mentioned that he hadn't seen them in Perth... but, it seems like they are available in Australia...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...postcount=1638

They are my favourite tyres on the Vee - how about some of you Aussie guys testing them on the S10, so I don't have to?

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