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Old 05-25-2010, 09:09 AM   #1501
SKINNY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiko
My gut feeling is a lot of the violence will come to a slow grinding halt after this year with the presidential elections in 2012. PAN will have to cut a deal and let this go or they'll lose the elections.

Some of my Mexican friends have been already talking that PRD is looking like the next party to take over. I suspect a lot of Mexicans admire Calderon for his efforts, but realistically have conceded that it is a losing battle as long as the US continues its current drug policies that promote the illicit drug trade.

Exactly how is the US policy promoting the drug trade???
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:21 AM   #1502
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Originally Posted by SKINNY
Exactly how is the US policy promoting the drug trade???

Well ... I'll jump in here and say that the product sure isn't being consumed in Mexico in any meaningful quantities, so consumption is a US problem.
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:23 AM   #1503
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The US policy >>possession = criminal offense.
Prohibition did not work for alcohol. I think that the same drug policies we've seen in the US shows that "drug prohibition" has not been working either.

Does anyone honestly think that the US policy of criminalizing drug possession over the last 50 years has resulted in less drug use among its populace?

Possession of small amounts of drugs is legal in Mexico. All of the narco killing going on now is not related to this but rather to who gets the biggest slice of the pie in transporting drugs over the border to the US consumer.
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:51 AM   #1504
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Half of production consumed locally seems to be steep to me. Maybe in urban areas or resort areas the percentage could be near that but in the rural areas I travel, most of the Mexicans frown on those who use drugs.

In the small towns, virtually all of the locals are usually related to each other somehow and they maintain a tight family grip on values, drug use just doesn't appear to be prevalent.
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:58 AM   #1505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiko
The US policy >>possession = criminal offense.
Prohibition did not work for alcohol. I think that the same drug policies we've seen in the US shows that "drug prohibition" has not been working either.

Does anyone honestly think that the US policy of criminalizing drug possession over the last 50 years has resulted in less drug use among its populace?

Possession of small amounts of drugs is legal in Mexico. All of the narco killing going on now is not related to this but rather to who gets the biggest slice of the pie in transporting drugs over the border to the US consumer.

I don't think anyone, including the US government thinks their drug policy is working, but if you legalize pot, the narcos will concentrate even more on heroin/cocaine/meth...and legalizing those drugs is a uniformly bad idea...
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:21 AM   #1506
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Originally Posted by sredak
I am no expert, but I would argue that at least half of production is consumed locally (in Mexico).
Really?

Interesting ... I'm under the impression that other than Juarez there isn't much of a drug problem in Mexico.
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:33 AM   #1507
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The flip side to all of this is if the US were to legalize drugs, control its distribution, and tax drug use, then,,,the Mexican economy would go belly up. Outside of tourism and the transfer of money from Mexicans who work in the US, the drug trade in Mexico is the biggest economic slice of the pie.

I think if the US legalized it all (pot, heroin, coke, meth, etc) then the cartels would still be importing,, but importing lesser amounts. I suspect that they can obtain it and ship it cheaper than the US govt can provide it once it has been US regulated, distributed, and taxed.

The Mexicans like to blame the Americans for lots of things, and the demand side of the drug trade is no exception. It's a lot less painful to complain about your neighbor's yard than to clean up your own.
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:42 AM   #1508
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Originally Posted by sredak
I agree with you about drugs being socially unacceptable in the ranchos. As I said, I am no expert but I have been out few times past my bedtime (9:30) in the city. There are lot of coc-locos running around out there!

Wasn't drug use in small amounts effectively decriminalized a year or so ago in Mexico?
I haven't read the statutes but I've been told by several that "small" amounts of pot, cocaine, meth, etc. was decriminalized for personal use in Mexico last year.

Sort of strange isn't it, in Mexico we have lenient personal use drug possession laws and very restrictive gun possession laws; whereas in the US drug use is criminalized and there gun purchase/ownership laws are more lax.

In Mexico, a low percentage (my guess) of personal drug use and a low percentage of random violent crime (once you take the police/narcos out of the population). In the US, higher drug use numbers, higher gun ownership numbers, higher random crime statistics. I owned an arsenal in the states, but not now here. I could obtain a gun in Mexico but don't feel the need for personal protection of that sort.

Just an observation, not baiting.
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:56 AM   #1509
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Good observations, actually.

As a practical matter I don't see the USA legalizing any drug for the foreseeable future, so that nonsense won't change.

If I had to stick my neck out I suspect that the Gulf Cartel will get a hold on our local situation and they will go back to quietly smuggling drugs and not getting into all of the other sorts of things that bring negative attention. And in the next several months things here in Northern Mexico will be back to what passes for normal.

I still wouldn't run for office however.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:24 AM   #1510
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Originally Posted by gasandasphalt
My $0.02,,, After many years of world travel, 30 countries, having lived for extended periods in 10 of thoes countries, most during time of war or unrest,, I have one word of advice,,,,, if you feel the need to be perfectly SAFE,, may I suggest you put your motorcycle in your garage, place it on the center stand (if it has one), cover it and stay at home in front of your computer and tag along via internet on the rides the rest of us do!!!!!

I did my first motorcycle trip to Mexico in 1962 on my brand new 1962 Ducati Monza, back then bike riders enjoyed instant Celebrity status... kids would run along the bike for a mile or better just to have a look... riders still enjoy this treatment today to some extent... Safe is a state of mind... pack up fill up and just go.......

My last ADV trip to Mexico ended five weeks ago yesterday,,, NO ISSUES

Ride well
Something tells me it'd be a real experience to ride with you, amigo. And I bet you don't have any good stories at all of the riding you've done thru the years, do you?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateJohn
you are safer in 99% of Northern Mexico than you are in 99% of Jacksonville, FL.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:32 AM   #1511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateJohn
Good observations, actually.

As a practical matter I don't see the USA legalizing any drug for the foreseeable future, so that nonsense won't change.

If I had to stick my neck out I suspect that the Gulf Cartel will get a hold on our local situation and they will go back to quietly smuggling drugs and not getting into all of the other sorts of things that bring negative attention. And in the next several months things here in Northern Mexico will be back to what passes for normal.

I still wouldn't run for office however.
I can definitely see Obama paying for more votes by legalizing marijuana. If not outright, then making medical marijuana legal as it is here in California. His constituents would be most appreciative.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateJohn
you are safer in 99% of Northern Mexico than you are in 99% of Jacksonville, FL.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:26 PM   #1512
tricepilot
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:43 PM   #1513
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[quote=sredak]
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TRICEPILOT you are such a diplomat have you ever considered getting into politics? It's political season in Mexico maybe you could run for office!
Dang! The PRI?! He can't lose!
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:49 PM   #1514
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[QUOTE=mark883]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sredak

Dang! The PRI?! He can't lose!

Mark!!

Surviving decently I presume?

Sam left this AM before I even left for work. If you hear from him tell him that I send my best regards.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:54 PM   #1515
tricepilot
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Of course, my running mate should be obvious
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