Is Mexico Safe?

[LaOutbackTrail]

Originally Posted by MikeMike

Try checking the narco violence websites or simply google the name of the town for the latest news.
There could be a pitched battle in the street between drug kingpins and the military and Darth Vader and any self-respecting hotel owner is going to tell you to "come on down and enjoy your stay" and take your reservation. If you are worried, stay home, because your paranoia is simply going to interfere with your enjoying your trip.

What is happening on this thread is that there are people who know the situation well and those who don't. Those who do are telling you to simply do what you normally do, those who don't are putting out feelers that they hope will damper their fears that have developed from listening to a multitude of people who know nothing and media generated nonsense. The amount of paranoia about traveling here is getting ridiculous.

How about switching off the paranoia for a moment and getting back to the reality of traveling here with tips and advice?

Originally Posted by tricepilot

Yes. They say you skipped out on your breakfast tab.



PS: This doesn't look like the pose of a guy who would be concerned about returning.

Yep. That guy would leave in a heart beat to ride a motorcycle down there. Solo or with a group, I wouldn't think twice.

But, that guy in a truck with: wife, daughter, and soon to be child number 2 (due March 18); the situation takes on an entirely different role. We will be traveling when the baby is 8 or 9 months, so around Christmas this year (maybe sooner). So the role takes at least some planning and weighing of risks. We are planning to explore the jungles the Mayan world in Oaxaca, Chiapas, Belize and Guatemala December 2013 (1 month trip). So the Sierra Madres is a trip to wet my families feet in Mexico Travel.

[tricepilot]

Originally Posted by LaOutbackTrail

But, that guy in a truck with: wife, daughter, and soon to be child number 2 (due March 18); the situation takes on an entirely different role.

I sent you a PM of what I think about travel in a truck through the state of Tamaulipas.

[LaOutbackTrail]

Originally Posted by tricepilot

I sent you a PM of what I think about travel in a truck through the state of Tamaulipas.

Saw it. Thanks Senor Bob.

Btw, a man in Brown should drop off a suspicious "package" in the next day or two.

[jimmex]

Originally Posted by FotoTEX

I am still amazed that riders still want to ride to Mexico when the odds are YOU will run into trouble. If you have to ask- Is Mexico Safe?- I think you already know the answer. NO

With so much of the USA much better and with less risk, why would you take that chance?? I am sure I will get blasted for my opinion, but it is just that. My opinion.

I will never again step foot into that country. Been there, done that. And yes, I know Mexico is full of great people, I also know it is full of some bad ass dudes. Once again, no thanks.

Maybe go for a ride to Ft. Worth Zoo or somewhere equally interesting.

[LaOutbackTrail]

Originally Posted by jimmex

Maybe go for a ride to Ft. Worth Zoo or somewhere equally interesting.

But say away from the Dallas zoo... its in the barrio/hood/ghetto.

[mark883]

The Detroit zoo?

Well.... hell.... the whole darn town is a zoo.

[tricepilot]

Originally Posted by LaOutbackTrail

Btw, a man in Brown should drop off a suspicious "package" in the next day or two.

[PirateJohn]

Originally Posted by mark883

The Detroit zoo?

Well.... hell.... the whole darn town is a zoo.

You WILL run into trouble there.

[BMW Kurt]

Originally Posted by FotoTEX

I am still amazed that riders still want to ride to Mexico when the odds are YOU will run into trouble. If you have to ask- Is Mexico Safe?- I think you already know the answer. NO

With so much of the USA much better and with less risk, why would you take that chance?? I am sure I will get blasted for my opinion, but it is just that. My opinion.

I will never again step foot into that country. Been there, done that. And yes, I know Mexico is full of great people, I also know it is full of some bad ass dudes. Once again, no thanks.

Well, I will tell you why I want to ride to Mexico and Central America. Up until December 20 I was an elementary school teacher in a community that was heavily Latino. My principal knew that I preferred having the Hispanic children in my class. Why? They were the hardest working, most polite, well mannered children in the school. This was especially true for the first and second generation students. By the third generation they have become what we called "Americanized"... gangs, drugs, etc. If I ever had a problem with a Hispanic kid all I would need to say is, "Do I need to call your father?" Problem solved. White and Black children would ask me if I knew who their father was.

Being a teacher I have always toured Canada in the summers. Canada got waaaaay to expensive for me and now that I have time in the spring, I'm headed down south. If you will look at my posts I am only concerned about police corruption, not the people in general. I am only concerned about police corruption because I am unfamiliar with how the game is played. But, then again, I don't travel to see familiar surroundings, I travel to broaden my horizons and learn. When people tell me I am going to die in Latin America I just tell them it is not like I am going to Philadelphia or Detroit. Just today on the news I heard about a shootout and 4 or 5 cops being shot in Utah! I wonder if that will make the news in Mexico City and they will tell their citizens how dangerous the US is.

When I return from this trip I hope to work with the Hispanic community in my town with a better understanding of where they come from.

I'm not "blasting" for your opinion to which you have every right to. I just thought you might be interested in another view.

[tricepilot]

Originally Posted by BMW Kurt

When I return from this trip I hope to work with the Hispanic community in my town with a better understanding of where they come from.

I thought your whole post was good. But this is especially poignant. Really speaks to what travel does for the heart and the soul. Excellent.

[acejones]

Originally Posted by SchizzMan

Apparently the greatest risk of danger in Mexico is being kidnapped, having your testicles surgically removed and being sent home without knowing what happened to you.

Thats the company I retired from.

[VidereStudios]

Originally Posted by tricepilot

I sent you a PM of what I think about travel in a truck through the state of Tamaulipas.

Care to share your insights with me? I am thinking the LandCruiser thing is going to win out over the motorcycle thing...

[tricepilot]

Originally Posted by VidereStudios

Care to share your insights with me? I am thinking the LandCruiser thing is going to win out over the motorcycle thing...

In a nutshell, and this is my opinion, motorcycles win out over trucks and SUVs, especially in the state of Tamaulipas. Cartels and their facimiles have in the past targeted pickups and SUVs to incorporate into their activities. No way to be absolutely sure if the motive is robbery, vehicle theft, or both. There are various anecdotal stories on this topic. Here are two:

The tale of Sam and Nancy Davis. This missionary woman was shot when allegedly her husband tried to flee what appeared to be an attempted truck jacking south of Reynosa. Link.

The tale of Canadian mountain biker Ken Klowak. He was shot when his suburban didn't yield to pursuers near the town of Allende. Link.

Refusal to stop is a link in both these incidents.

Overall, statistically the risk may be low. But it appears to exist.

Arte has commented on the relative risk on this issue in the past. In fact, to this day, he drives, as I remember, a black SUV in and around Reynosa, with no ill effect.

[LaOutbackTrail]

Originally Posted by VidereStudios

Care to share your insights with me? I am thinking the LandCruiser thing is going to win out over the motorcycle thing...

Trice beat me to it, but my response was:

Thanks amigo. If we go, it will be with a couple of friends, so 3-4 trucks. I currently have 4 friends in 4 trucks with their families traveling in Mexico and Central America as we speak. Unfortunately they hauled ass through the border zone and skipped Galeana... even though I recommended a decent route.

For the 'foot wettin' ' trip I want to take the group down to Galeana, do a few of the MexTrek routes plus those routes down towards Zaragoza and then cut over to Doctor Arroyo, Matehuala, and hit Real de Catorce. Then do my dirt route BACK to Galeana through the desert.

These are three of the rigs interested (Mine is the blue/green one).

1995 Mitsubishi Montero, 2000 Jeep Wrangler, 2007 FJ Cruiser. Below: 1999 Toyota 4Runner. Below that: Toyota Land Cruiser and Lexus LX470. None are subtle.


And these two guys are invited as well. They are a couple of the ones traveling through Mexico right now. The Lexus is actually in Real de Catorce tonight.


So yeah. Generally not afraid to travel down there. But would like to mitigate the risks as best as possible.

In general travelers are not targeted in Latin America. Maybe petty stuff, but even Narcos can be smart. I mean hell, the country's tourism is hurting because of the violence/perceived violence... not good for anyone's business.


A small uneasiness that I do have is potentially being targeted as a competing narco group on the wrong turf. If we are targeted, I would hope we have the family of gringos advantage and they let us go. I realize this sort of situation is unlikely though, but you do hear stories of these events. And to be honest my only concern is the border zone, the gauntlet to the mountains. I've ridden the route several times on a moto and have never felt threatened or seen anything that would indicate trouble. But digging up some information, I found that a couple towns on the route have had some scary issues. General Teran's police force quit after grenades were tossed into the police station, killing several. Montemorelos has had increasing violence. But no news that I've seen has been about tourists. Mostly cartel vs cartel.

This source is both reassuring and disturbing...
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/...rug_war_update

Paints a pretty good picture of where the violence is targeted.

And for the record.... FBI's Uniform Crime Report for 2009 shows 13,756 Murders in the United States, 14,748 for 2010. The link above shows 9,600 drug related murders in 2009 in Mexico, 15,273 in 2010.

So statistically in 2010 you had about ~1% greater chance of being murdered in Mexico vs the US. Someone check my math.... But I do not think those numbers, particularly of Mexico, are reflective for tourists.

[VidereStudios]

Originally Posted by tricepilot

Refusal to stop is a link in both these incidents. Overall, statistically the risk may be low. But it appears to exist.

Yeah, I watched those two stories with intense interest. I think obviously it pays not to run when people have automatic weapons pointed at you. My life is worth way more than a motorcycle or truck.

Also, driving newer GMC, Chevy, Ford, or Dodge trucks and large SUV's doesn't seem to make good sense. I think a dusty (but not muddy) and beat-up rig is the way to go if driving. However, I do agree that an SUV or truck is a step up on the risk ladder.