Is Mexico Safe?

[MikeMike]

Here is something of specific interest to those who ride in Mexico.
It relates to the federal protocol on use of force, especially deadly force, to detain someone.
Basically, unless you shoot first, nobody is going to shoot you.


"El gobierno federal anunció la entrada en vigor de los Protocolos para el Uso de la Fuerza, la Preservación de Evidencias y la Presentación de los Detenidos ante las Autoridades que deberán ser cumplidos por el Ejército, la Marina, la Fuerza Aérea, la Policía Federal y la PGR, y entre los que destaca cuándo se puede aplicar el uso letal de la fuerza.

En las operaciones contra el crimen las Fuerzas Armadas no podrán disparar contra personas que evadan, huyan o traten de hacerlo, salvo que éstas se resistan de manera grave a la autoridad y representen un peligro inminente de muerte o lesiones serias, de acuerdo con los nuevos protocolos de actuación que regirán a estos elementos, así como de la Policía Federal y agentes de la Procuraduría General de la República (PGR), que fijan que el uso de la fuerza es el último recurso. "

[PirateJohn]

Originally Posted by MikeMike

Here is something of specific interest to those who ride in Mexico.
It relates to the federal protocol on use of force, especially deadly force, to detain someone.
Basically, unless you shoot first, nobody is going to shoot you.

]

Mike, what are your thoughts? I am reminded that the Marines recently "stopped" a Jeep Grand Cherokee west of Nuevo Laredo by using rocket fire from a helicopter, and the 4 bad guys inside died strapped to their seats.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.304349,-98.982940

[tricepilot]

Originally Posted by MikeMike

Basically, unless you shoot first, nobody is going to shoot you.

I don't think the narcos (or anybody else for that matter) believes this governmentally published policy for a nanosecond

[mark883]

Originally Posted by PirateJohn

Mike, what are your thoughts? I am reminded that the Marines recently "stopped" a Jeep Grand Cherokee west of Nuevo Laredo by using rocket fire from a helicopter, and the 4 bad guys inside died strapped to their seats.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.304349,-98.982940

The handgun they were shooting at the helicopter was ejected from the vehicle in the ensuing explosion. The deadly force was just aimed at the Jeep anyways. They weren't aiming at the occupants.

Case closed.

[Tommy.flynn]

I am planning a trip from Atlanta to Costa Rica and am looking for helpful information/tips (especially on plotting a course). Google Maps gives me directions using roads, but are there alternative, more naturally beautiful, possibilities?

Also, the travel report for US tourists has a lot of "red lights" for people driving through many parts of Mexico (as in, they say not to do it). Is that overcautious mumbo-jumbo or are there really some ports/states/cities/towns/roads that I should completely avoid?

Thanks!

[Kiko]

A "Federal protocol on use of force?" Maybe on paper, but in reality the feds will spray paint the landscape with lead and ask questions later.

[SR]

Originally Posted by dcstrom

Just noticed this on one of the ride reports - not dangerous, but I can see the potential... Like he says, don't get involved...

Urique Business
One more story about Urique before we move on. We were eating dinner at Restaurant La Playa and a local guy came over and started a conversation with us. He used to be an English teacher in Chihuahua and was very friendly. After some small talk I asked him "what do these guys behind you do for a living in Urique." I was expecting him to say "they are ranchers" but he said they make their money growing "maryjane and poppies." He said the drug dealers showed up at the beginning of the growing season and gave them the seeds and told them they'll get NP$700 pesos for a kilo of pot and NP$1500 pesos for a kilo of raw opium. But...when harvest came the dealers only offered half that and nobody sold. So now they're all holding onto their goods until the price gets better. He wasn't sure how this one was going to play out but he mentioned last year the drug dealers killed the mayor and some other city officials.

I don't want to scare anyone from coming here. Everbody was nice and if you mind your own business you should be fine.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=85

They say that Mota and Gomma are the largest agricultural product from the state of Durango. I dont think anyone knows that for a fact, but it wouldnt surprise me if it's true. Same in western Chihuahua and Sinaloa.

This year, there has been a lot of grumbling about the extremely low prices of these commodities. I've even seen it mentioned in the newspaper a few times. Small towns in the Sierra that have relied on these crops for decades are struggling to sell their harvest. They say it's getting harder to move it within Mexico and across the border, so no one wants to buy it. Also, with medical MJ there is increase competition from domestic production in California and other parts of the US. Not trying to get into debate on the war on drugs, just some observations.

[MikeMike]

Let's clarify this.
First, soldiers have been relieved of duties and jailed for the killing of innocent people who have run road blocks or failed to stop.
A case of two dead young guys in Tuxpan a few years ago was a precedent setter.
They know who they are after, that is why the blasted the Jeep Cherokee, when surveillance is used and they know the bad guys are heavily armed, bye bye. That is not going to change.
This is for the regular folks who are nervous about road blocks or who inadvertently fail to stop, it protects them from just being shot for running a road block.
This will likely go a long way in keeping two up riders, fully loaded, from pinning the throttle on their GS1150's and magically gaining 10 or 15mph in extra top end.
The way they are setting up road blocks these days, it is unlikely anyone is going to fail to stop at a real one.
It's a good move, it pushes more professionalism on the soldiers and everybody but the bad guys can benefit.
There haven't been a lot of incidents of improper use of force and this simply makes it clearer as to what is allowed and when.
But, of course, this is an edict from a federal government! And we all know just how perfect all federal governments are throughout the world. No federal government would ever make a mistake...LOL!

[LaOutbackTrail]

We have some colleagues in town from De eFe and a conversation over dinner was directed toward my gun ownership.... and how "everyone" in Texas has a gun... and my Mexican colleagues were then suddenly and genuinely afraid to use their horn or flash their lights while driving.

Looks like I'll be going to Mexico City in a couple of weeks. Does anyone have any recommendations for must sees/dos in D.F.? I may have a day or two extra to explore. What is the recommended way to explore the city? Taxi? Bus?

[tricepilot]

Originally Posted by LaOutbackTrail

Looks like I'll be going to Mexico City in a couple of weeks. Does anyone have any recommendations for must sees/dos in D.F.? I may have a day or two extra to explore. What is the recommended way to explore the city? Taxi? Bus?

Chango just returned from jetting down there and running around like, well, like Chango does. (see Zona Rosa)

Like NYC, the list of what to see and do is as long and varied as there are people who have been there or live there.

In addition to the other thoughts you may get here, I always like Rick Bayless' frequently updated notes on Mexico City

I like Teotihuacan as a side trip.

[SR]

Originally Posted by MikeMike

Let's clarify this.
First, soldiers have been relieved of duties and jailed for the killing of innocent people who have run road blocks or failed to stop.
A case of two dead young guys in Tuxpan a few years ago was a precedent setter.
They know who they are after, that is why the blasted the Jeep Cherokee, when surveillance is used and they know the bad guys are heavily armed, bye bye. That is not going to change.
This is for the regular folks who are nervous about road blocks or who inadvertently fail to stop, it protects them from just being shot for running a road block.
This will likely go a long way in keeping two up riders, fully loaded, from pinning the throttle on their GS1150's and magically gaining 10 or 15mph in extra top end.
The way they are setting up road blocks these days, it is unlikely anyone is going to fail to stop at a real one.
It's a good move, it pushes more professionalism on the soldiers and everybody but the bad guys can benefit.
There haven't been a lot of incidents of improper use of force and this simply makes it clearer as to what is allowed and when.
But, of course, this is an edict from a federal government! And we all know just how perfect all federal governments are throughout the world. No federal government would ever make a mistake...LOL!

Mike Sorry I deleted my comment as you were responding. I dont like getting into these hot button issues, but I often do anyway! These things are complicated and never any right answers. While I do appreciate and support the new strong Federal Police approach, it is probably a good thing that they have these new rules of engagement. Execution of criminals on the spot sounds like a good idea sometimes, but it is really not the civilized way to go. The Federal Forces in Mexico are getting to be very professional and can do better than that.

[SR]

Originally Posted by tricepilot

Chango just returned from jetting down there and running around like, well, like Chango does. (see Zona Rosa)

Like NYC, the list of what to see and do is as long and varied as there are people who have been there or live there.

In addition to the other thoughts you may get here, I always like Rick Bayless' frequently updated notes on Mexico City

I like Teotihuacan as a side trip.

+ Palacio de Bellas Artes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palacio_de_Bellas_Artes

+ National Anthropology Museum

+ Castle at Chapultepec

[Kiko]

Speaking of Mexican police, FWIW > Last year a local cop was arrested and extradited to the US for a murder he had committed in California. The US Feds finally hunted this guy down in Jalisco.

The Mexican govt isn't too good about background checks I guess.

[mark883]

Originally Posted by SR

+ Palacio de Bellas Artes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palacio_de_Bellas_Artes (absolutely rules if you have any appreciation for art. WARNING: There is some Pinko Commie Art there, but its cool)

+ National Anthropology Museum (absolutely rules if you have any appreciation for history.)

+ Castle at Chapultepec (and don't forget the park. Castle is great if you have any appreciation for history. WARNING: If you believe the USA is absolutely right no matter what, you may not appreciate it. But be sure to look up anyways.)

my notes above. I'd love to go back to any of those places.

[SchizzMan]

Plus:

*Garibaldi Square for mariachi music.

*Zocalo: Diego Rivera murals in Prez Palace, the cathedral, Templo Mayor, eat on Holiday Inn roof top restaurant

*Latin American Tower observation deck

*Hotel Catedral on Donceles just north of Zocalo is good

*Breakfast at Casa de Azulejos (Sanborn's House of Tiles)

*Use taxis to get around. Have hotel or restaurant call them or use kiosks to avoid bad guys in taxis.

*From Hotel Catedral you can walk to all the above. Many great restaurants and taco stands around the Zocalo. ¡Provecho!

*Buy Lonely Planet guidebook

*Know what days and times you cannot operate your vehicle there. Ask me if you don't find that.