ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Trip Planning > Americas
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-24-2013, 08:15 PM   #12496
kobukan
almost gnarly
 
kobukan's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Saco ME
Oddometer: 1,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMike View Post
Try riding through the Jane/Finch corridor in Toronto on a Friday night.
Yes, there are plenty of punks with handguns in every province in Canada. More of an urban thing, if you live in Dryden you are likely safe.
Sorry about the late reply here, but I'm on the road between ME & AZ (Natchez MS at the moment). With all due respect, comparing city crime to something that happens on a country road just doesn't make any sense to me. I think we all know that many cities (in the US or anywhere else) have areas that can be somewhat less than safe, especially at night. I often see posts saying to stay away from those places when traveling in Mexico, and don't ride at night. Good advice imo. But, it concerns me that there are "punks" robbing people at gunpoint in Mexico, in the kinds of places where I would normally feel safe - the kind of places I'd like to go. We don't have that kind of problem in the US, or Canada to the best of my knowledge. I have traveled all throughout the US, and many places in Canada over the past thirty-five years and never worried much because I mostly stay out of the cities, especially the seedy areas at night. I took my kids all over the US when they were little without much worry. I've never had any problems. I don't think Mexico should be declared unsafe, but I do think there is certainly some cause for concern in areas other than the typical city crime areas. I've gotten a tremendous amount of helpful information from this thread and I'm thankful to all of you who contribute regularly and are much more knowledgeable and experienced than I in regard to Mexico travel. However, I do think there seems to be a trend of responding to any criminal activity in Mexico by stating that US cities are dangerous. I don't think this is helpful. In fact, unfortunately I think it erodes the credibility of the most knowledgeable contributors to this thread. If those things are happening, it's helpful to know about them, to know where and why they are happening, and how best to avoid or cope with them. Comparing it to crime in US cities just doesn't make any sense.

I hope I haven't offended anyone. I appreciate all the information that's posted here on a regular basis.

See you in Baja.
__________________
'04 R1150GS, '97 R1100GS, '99 DR350, '02 DR650, '03 DR650
A Few Days Solo to Copper Canyon
A Maine Rider’s Arizona Day Trips
A Few Days Solo in Baja
kobukan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 08:34 PM   #12497
tricepilot
El Gran Payaso
 
tricepilot's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: San Antonio
Oddometer: 8,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobukan View Post
But, it concerns me that there are "punks" robbing people at gunpoint in Mexico, in the kinds of places where I would normally feel safe - the kind of places I'd like to go. We don't have that kind of problem in the US, or Canada to the best of my knowledge.
From Wiki on carjackings:

"The United States Department of Justice estimates that in about half of all carjacking attempts, the attacker succeeds in stealing the victim's car. It's estimated that, between 1987 and 1992, about 35,000 carjacking attempts took place per year; and, between 1992 and 1996, about 49,000 attempts took place per year.[7] Many U.S. states, such as Louisiana and Arizona, include defending oneself against forcible entry of an occupied motor vehicle as part of their definition of justifiable homicide."

This is old data. I have no idea what the current data is. And, maybe carjackings occur only in cities. Maybe most carjackings don't involve firearms. But I assume most do. Hard to be on the other side of the glass with a knife and have any real threat to offer. I have no idea. I've never been a victim nor do I know anyone who has. But let's say the data has merely flatlined since 1996. 50,000 carjacking attempts in the US per year is a lot of robbing people with vehicles at gunpoint.
tricepilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 08:57 PM   #12498
kobukan
almost gnarly
 
kobukan's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Saco ME
Oddometer: 1,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricepilot View Post
From Wiki on carjackings:

"The United States Department of Justice estimates that in about half of all carjacking attempts, the attacker succeeds in stealing the victim's car. It's estimated that, between 1987 and 1992, about 35,000 carjacking attempts took place per year; and, between 1992 and 1996, about 49,000 attempts took place per year.[7] Many U.S. states, such as Louisiana and Arizona, include defending oneself against forcible entry of an occupied motor vehicle as part of their definition of justifiable homicide."

This is old data. I have no idea what the current data is. And, maybe carjackings occur only in cities. Maybe most carjackings don't involve firearms. But I assume most do. Hard to be on the other side of the glass with a knife and have any real threat to offer. I have no idea. I've never been a victim nor do I know anyone who has. But let's say the data has merely flatlined since 1996. 50,000 carjacking attempts in the US per year is a lot of robbing people with vehicles at gunpoint.
I'm a little confused by your response - another example of city violence. Is it your opinion that I am no more likely to have thugs jump out of the bushes and rob me at gun point on a country road in Mexico than in the US or Canada?
__________________
'04 R1150GS, '97 R1100GS, '99 DR350, '02 DR650, '03 DR650
A Few Days Solo to Copper Canyon
A Maine Rider’s Arizona Day Trips
A Few Days Solo in Baja
kobukan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:05 PM   #12499
Craneguy
British Hooligan
 
Craneguy's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Riyadh, KSA, Cuernavaca, Mx, Houston, Tx
Oddometer: 1,027
This is interesting. I have a theory that carjacking is on the rise because modern cars are basically too hard to hotwire.

The easiest way to steal a car these days is to take it at gunpoint along with its chipped key.

Also I agree comparing rural highway robbery with inner-city violence isn't particularly useful.

For the purposes of this thread it's far better to point out that the BMW shooting incident was a one-off, and could have been a simple (and still unusual) robbery if the victims had followed the SOP of having a throw-away wallet. I don't blame them for running. I did the same thing in a car 12 years ago between Oaxaca and PE during a hold-up attempt and got lucky too. I know better now.

For what we ADVers are looking for, Mexico is indeed safe. (except for the Topecabra, but that's a whole other thread)
__________________
Young enough to think I can. Old enough to know I shouldn't. Stupid enough to do it anyway
'13 Duc Multi GT, '10 Vstrom 1k, '10 705cc KLR
Craneguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:06 PM   #12500
tricepilot
El Gran Payaso
 
tricepilot's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: San Antonio
Oddometer: 8,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobukan View Post
I'm a little confused by your response - another example of city violence.
I missed it. Where does it say city violence?
tricepilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:10 PM   #12501
kobukan
almost gnarly
 
kobukan's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Saco ME
Oddometer: 1,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricepilot View Post
I missed it. Where does it say city violence?
Car-jackings in the US are a city problem. How is comparing that to country road robbery helpful?
__________________
'04 R1150GS, '97 R1100GS, '99 DR350, '02 DR650, '03 DR650
A Few Days Solo to Copper Canyon
A Maine Rider’s Arizona Day Trips
A Few Days Solo in Baja
kobukan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:13 PM   #12502
tricepilot
El Gran Payaso
 
tricepilot's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: San Antonio
Oddometer: 8,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobukan View Post
Car-jackings in the US are a city problem.
Only cities? Where are you sourcing that bit from? Your assumptions?
tricepilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:16 PM   #12503
kobukan
almost gnarly
 
kobukan's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Saco ME
Oddometer: 1,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craneguy View Post
This is interesting. I have a theory that carjacking is on the rise because modern cars are basically too hard to hotwire.

The easiest way to steal a car these days is to take it at gunpoint along with its chipped key.

Also I agree comparing rural highway robbery with inner-city violence isn't particularly useful.

For the purposes of this thread it's far better to point out that the BMW shooting incident was a one-off, and could have been a simple (and still unusual) robbery if the victims had followed the SOP of having a throw-away wallet. I don't blame them for running. I did the same thing in a car 12 years ago between Oaxaca and PE during a hold-up attempt and got lucky too. I know better now.

For what we ADVers are looking for, Mexico is indeed safe. (except for the Topecabra, but that's a whole other thread)
If the the BMW shooting incident was a "one-off" that's good to know. But haven't there been other incidents of armed roadside robbery outside the cities? And it's really concerning that the perpetrators apparently shot at them for trying to escape, indicating that they were willing to kill them.
__________________
'04 R1150GS, '97 R1100GS, '99 DR350, '02 DR650, '03 DR650
A Few Days Solo to Copper Canyon
A Maine Rider’s Arizona Day Trips
A Few Days Solo in Baja
kobukan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:19 PM   #12504
kobukan
almost gnarly
 
kobukan's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Saco ME
Oddometer: 1,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricepilot View Post
Only cities? Where are you sourcing that bit from? Your assumptions?
Personal experience only. You compared car-jacking in the US to armed robbery on country roads in Mexico - do you assume they are the same? The two do not seem the same to me. I could be wrong.
__________________
'04 R1150GS, '97 R1100GS, '99 DR350, '02 DR650, '03 DR650
A Few Days Solo to Copper Canyon
A Maine Rider’s Arizona Day Trips
A Few Days Solo in Baja
kobukan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:19 PM   #12505
tricepilot
El Gran Payaso
 
tricepilot's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: San Antonio
Oddometer: 8,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobukan View Post
Car-jackings in the US are a city problem. How is comparing that to country road robbery helpful?
LINK A


From that link:

"Carjacking isn't just a problem in large cities - it happens in suburbs, small towns, and rural areas."
tricepilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:22 PM   #12506
tricepilot
El Gran Payaso
 
tricepilot's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: San Antonio
Oddometer: 8,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobukan View Post
Car-jackings in the US are a city problem. How is comparing that to country road robbery helpful?
LINK B

From that link:

"Authorities say the men assaulted and carjacked a couple McGee lured to a rural area and drove off with the couple's three young children."
tricepilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:23 PM   #12507
kobukan
almost gnarly
 
kobukan's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Saco ME
Oddometer: 1,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricepilot View Post
LINK A


From that link:

"Carjacking isn't just a problem in large cities - it happens in suburbs, small towns, and rural areas."
Actually, I don't think we were ever really talking about car-jackings.
__________________
'04 R1150GS, '97 R1100GS, '99 DR350, '02 DR650, '03 DR650
A Few Days Solo to Copper Canyon
A Maine Rider’s Arizona Day Trips
A Few Days Solo in Baja
kobukan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:24 PM   #12508
tricepilot
El Gran Payaso
 
tricepilot's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: San Antonio
Oddometer: 8,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobukan View Post
Personal experience only.
Well, I don't have any experience with the 50,000+ carjackings in the US each year either, so that's why I don't claim they only happen in cities.
tricepilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:24 PM   #12509
tricepilot
El Gran Payaso
 
tricepilot's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: San Antonio
Oddometer: 8,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobukan View Post
Actually, I don't think we were ever really talking about car-jackings.
I'd run away from the topic too
tricepilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 09:26 PM   #12510
kobukan
almost gnarly
 
kobukan's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Saco ME
Oddometer: 1,699
I give up. My point has been missed completely and the conversation has gone off in a completely different direction. I appreciate all the info. I'll still be riding in Mexico.
__________________
'04 R1150GS, '97 R1100GS, '99 DR350, '02 DR650, '03 DR650
A Few Days Solo to Copper Canyon
A Maine Rider’s Arizona Day Trips
A Few Days Solo in Baja
kobukan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014