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Old 12-23-2013, 04:00 PM   #1
RickS. OP
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it appears to not be charging....still

Ok, I found my newly purchased 100GS had a charging issue. I first had the battery load tested, no problem there. I next checked to make sure of no loose connections. I then removed the plug from the voltage regulator, jumped the terminals and with multimeter connected to battery, started the bike. Now instead of 12.9 v I read 13.6v at 2000 rpm, at 3000 rpm putting out 14+ v. I called MotoradElektrik and explained what I just relayed here, and ordered a new voltage regulator. It arrived today, I installed it and set up to test. Just as before 12.9 v at 2000 rpm and 13.08 v at 3000 rpm. I have a feeling I still got the failure.
Help.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:04 PM   #2
Beezer Josh
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Those numbers are about normal on both my running bikes, and they have tens of thousands of miles with those numbers.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:06 PM   #3
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I agree with Mr. Beezer. I have, and have had many airheads and those figures sound normal to me. Yes they are not high charging bikes at all.

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Old 12-23-2013, 08:02 PM   #4
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Most alternators run off the cam shaft, unlike ours driven off the crank. What this means is it turns half as fast as 'normal' alternators. The faster an alternator spins the more electricity created.

Another factor is that if the battery has been discharged at all from as little as just starting the bike, the battery will be dropping a fair amount of voltage. Go for a 20 or 30 mile ride, then take your reading.
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:27 PM   #5
RickS. OP
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Hmm. Then something may be dragging the battery down during operation that the charging cannot overcome. Took bike out for a test earlier. Battery pre-ride 12.84v. Battery post-ride 11.32v. The test ride was 1 hour, 41 miles, various speed/rpm. No aux. lights, heated grips, heated gear, gps, ect. operating. Upon return, shut off, waited five minutes, tried to restart. klik,klik,klik

Gotta keep investigating.

RickS. screwed with this post 12-23-2013 at 08:33 PM
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirespokes View Post
Most alternators run off the cam shaft, unlike ours driven off the crank. What this means is it turns half as fast as 'normal' alternators.
Must be cold there. Slowing the brain down .. last time I looked the cam rotates at half the speed of the crank.

Most alternators are driven by a pulley. And the speed of those alternators are not the same as the cam nor the crank.

--------------------

RickS.
Measurements.. Keep the DMM negative lead connected to ONE point .. I'd use a bit of the engine to clip it too. This reduces the number of variables that have to be considered.

While the engine is running;

What is the 'battery' voltage at the voltage regulator? (The regulator has 3 connections - one ground, another is to the rotor, the third one is the one you want, connects to teh diode board field diodes and the battery warning lamp.) This may well be higher than the 'battery' voltage at the battery .. indicating a loss in the connectors/wiring.

What is the voltage at the battery negative terminal? A fault in the battery lead is possible...

Do you have a link to past posts on this by you?

Warin screwed with this post 12-23-2013 at 08:56 PM
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:26 PM   #7
RickS. OP
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Warin

Thanks. And there are no previous posts related.

I will take those measurements and post them in am.
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Old 12-24-2013, 06:57 AM   #8
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I would check ALL ground connections especially the grounds from the diode board to the engine. Disconnect the battery before removing the front cover. Do you still have the rubber mounts? Check the brushes and the condition of the slip rings. Check the resistance value of the rotor with the brushes removed or isolated. It should be approximately 3.0 ohms and not grounded. While you are in there run the diode board check found on this website http://jhau.maliwi.de/mot/r-elec.html


Sounds like the current is not getting to the battery while riding. Could be a rotor partially bad. Or you have a intermittent battery problem like a shorted cell.

Happy Hunting
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Old 12-24-2013, 08:19 AM   #9
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Everything as said above plus:

Poor grounds are best checked while current is running through them. It is not unknown for the resistance to increase when under load which may not show when measuring with the engine off.

For the charging circuit start the bike and put a volt meter across the ground wire and a good clean connection to the block. Same applies to any other connections in the circuit. Measure across each one. If it shows ANY voltage you have a bad connection because it should be a dead short. I had this with the ground wires from my diode board to the block. I would also recommend changing rubber mountings (if fitted) for metal as these give an additional solid ground connection.

Also consider the starter circuit. if you have a bad ground or other bad connection, the high current to the starter will drop a significant voltage across the bad connection. Needs to be tested with the starter turning, but without the engines being able to fire. i.e. plugs out and laid on the cylinders.

Dynamic testing like this will show up faults which may not be apparent under static testing.
Battery/charging voltage can look OK but current flow is restricted.

Aldo

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Old 12-27-2013, 07:50 AM   #10
685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warin View Post
Must be cold there. Slowing the brain down .. last time I looked the cam rotates at half the speed of the crank.

Most alternators are driven by a pulley. And the speed of those alternators are not the same as the cam nor the crank.
Most motorcycle generators are driven by the crank.

I got one of those electronic voltage regulators that were offered on EBay, they came with new brushes. Seems to have solved the problem. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...STRK:MERFB:IID The voltages you mentioned are about what I'm getting, btw.

If you're ending up with lower voltage after an extended ride, I'd suspect a not so good battery or ground problems. If you bench test the battery, does it leak voltage fairly fast?
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:55 PM   #11
RickS. OP
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So, I began searching for the problem, checked voltage as advised, checked for connector failure, I did order metal mounts for diode board, but nothing made sense until I disconnected heated grip wiring. It appears to, at one time, have had factory heated grips, the po had told me he installed new as old were bad. Ok , so I should have probably gone there first, I found two connectors in that circuit, molex, that I think are original as new wiring for grips was spliced into old in front of these, one was melted. disconnected that and the wiring in the same bundle to aux. lights, now all appears good. Test rides, long and short find a charged battery at the end. S#$tcanned aux. lights and associated wiring. I am waiting on manual I ordered, then I can better trace it all out.
Thanks to all for your input.
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:59 PM   #12
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Cool2 interesting

RickS.
Thanks for the update.
Have a great New Year!
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:43 PM   #13
Beezer Josh
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Nice Rick! Now it's time to go out and have a bit of fun.
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:12 AM   #14
RickS. OP
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After these many months,again,problems.

Ok, since last problem I have, after the cleaning and putting back together, spent two and a half months, 3000 miles, of happy riding.
Then, yesterday she won't start after sitting for a day. Battery very low. Charged overnight and started testing this AM.
When I removed B+ at diode board and read meter to D- on alternator, read between 17 and 22 vDC, after reconnecting B+ and removing D- from alternator (same wire from alternator test point I am assuming) I am reading 7mv. So bad diode board if I did that correctly. Did I? Anything else to look for before I go ordering and any tips or cautions on removal?

Thanks
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:47 PM   #15
Warin
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Originally Posted by RickS. View Post
Then, yesterday she won't start after sitting for a day. Battery very low. Charged overnight and started testing this AM.
And you first test should be .. battery voltage at various engine rpm!!!

Where is this basic test data?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RickS. View Post
When I removed B+ at diode board and read meter to D- on alternator,

meter ... has two leads ... black negative lead to D- and red positive lead to B+ ?????



Quote:
Originally Posted by RickS. View Post
read between 17 and 22 vDC, after reconnecting B+ and removing D- from alternator (same wire from alternator test point I am assuming) I am reading 7mv.
errr not certain what you did there .. where is the meter connected ?? both leads!

----------------------
Do the basic test first - battery voltage at various rmp .. that should tell if the alternator is charging. If the alternator is not charging than test individual components .. like is the alternator warning light on when you first turn on the ignition?


You do realize that the charging system may be working perfectly .. and the fault is a rapid discharge of the battery over night .. could be the battery .. or something is loading the battery (like leaving the parking lights on over night).
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