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Old 07-22-2012, 06:10 PM   #301
thunderhoof
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Joined: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Oddometer: 24
7 mm bolts

Wind Sailor
Do you mean the Titanium cap screws? If so the link works. Bottom line is I ran out of time to experiment. It is a pleasure to be able to crank the throttle in any gear with no slipplng. I think using the 1150 spring plate is important. The new clutch is a little sudden but the feel is better than with the old setup. Be sure to use proper lubricant everywhere. I am sure it makes a difference in the smoothness of the action.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:43 PM   #302
thunderhoof
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Joined: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Oddometer: 24
How to change an RT1100/1150 Clutch

How to change an R1100/1150RT Clutch


General Notes:
a. Use a Clymer or BMW manual to help you visualize the tasks. Also good for theory and torque values.
b. Organize the parts you remove. Use a cupcake tray for screws / bolts from each area.
c. I am doing this from memory – Check your work.Place bike on center stand. It should be in third gear or higher.
  1. Support front wheel firmly so bike will be stable with back end removed.
  2. Remove seats and mirrors and bags.
  3. Remove black triangle parts both sides.
  4. Remove both main side trim panels.
  5. Remove air filter cover , air filter and intake tube.
  6. Remove left side storage compartment and forward air intake.
  7. Remove fuel tank. Disconnect multipin connector on right near hoses. Get hose clamps for two larger hoses in advance. Mark one large and one small hose to avoid mixup. Buy screw type hose clamps for refit. (Change fuel filter in tank while things are apart.)
  8. Remove three airbox mounting screws. Two forward on side one inside at rear.
  9. Remove Battery and two nuts in the tray underneath
  10. Remove left side footpeg plate and disconnect shifter.
  11. Cut ziptie on starter motor to release wires for kickstand and oil level. Remove starter motor assembly.
  12. Remove right footpeg plate. Disconnect brake pedal from cylinder and rear brake cylinder from plate. Disconnect clamp for two rear brake lines from tranny body.
  13. Remove mounting bolts for rear caliper and pull out ABS sensor. (Preserve shims). Tie both to upper frame.
  14. Remove muffler.
  15. Left side. Disconnect 3 connectors near fuse box. Cut zip ties running down frame.
  16. Left and right sides. Release clamps on throttle body intakes and disconnect from throttle bodies. It may be necessary to release throttle bodies from engine. Disconnect fuel lines to injectors.
  17. Remove four cap screws holding frame together and loosen pivot rod above forward screws. See Clymer.
  18. Fit two lifting straps from handlebars to back end of bike.
  19. Pull up tail 3 or 4 inches at a time. Check both sides for stretched wires. Cut zip ties I forgot. Rear brake lines to ABS will flex as you raise the rear.
  20. Lift rear until the airbox can be removed. Watch fuel lines on forward side, They will stay with airbox / pressure regulator.
    That is the hard part. Now the clutch.
  21. Remove upper left and lower right tranny mounting bolts and replace with guide studs. I used a third one upper right too.
  22. Brace tranny on a dolly for removal. The better you do this the easier to install it later. Leave on the rear wheel, It makes it easier to back out the the tranny/ rear drive and re-install it.
    I have only a little advice for the rest of the job.
    a. Use a torque wrench when reassembling most parts.
    b. Use Permatex or whatever anti-seize on all bolts into aluminum. I also put some on the exhaust pipe before reassembly.
    c. Use a clutch centering tool. You will go nuts if you don't. Don't forget the proper grease in the designated places. If you are not sure what to use buy the BMW stuff.
  23. d. Line the tranny up carefully when reinstalling. Move the parts as close together as you can and still reach in to mate the shift rod with the spring disk. It will mate fine at the back end but it is tricky to mate the rod at the front end.
    e. The upper left and lower right tranny bolts also have alignment sleeves. They should snap into place as you remate the parts.
    f. Jack up the rear link with a car jack so the tire is just off the ground. With the bike in gear you can rock the wheel back and forth as you mate the parts.
I love this line: Refit is the reverse of the disassembly.

thunderhoof screwed with this post 08-01-2012 at 11:12 PM
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:35 AM   #303
Shango
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Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 52
Thanks thunderhoof,
I'll be picking up my parts Thursday and doing the work soon... Do you remember the size stud, bolt used for the guides? Not home for a few days but I can pull one of the bolts when I get back if I need to.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:09 PM   #304
thunderhoof
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Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Oddometer: 24
Transmission Guide Posts

The transmission case guides are made from M8 X 1.25 X 110 mm hex bolts. Just cut off the head and file a slight bevel on the end. I made 3 and used them all.
BTW. If you have a Harbor Freight anywhere near you they have a "Security Bit " kit for under $10 that contains all the hex and Torx bits you will need plus a hex to 1/4 inch drive adapter. I also got my furniture dolly and torque wrenches there,
I hope you got new M7 X 1.0 cap screws and lockwashers. In particular the lockwashers are a little different from the ones I have used before.
Good luck. Just take your time and the job is easy.

thunderhoof screwed with this post 08-01-2012 at 11:33 PM Reason: typo
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:34 AM   #305
facetjoint
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Location: Phx. AZ. The land of shake and bake
Oddometer: 5,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderhoof View Post
The transmission case guides are made from M8 X 1.25 X 110 mm hex bolts. Just cut off the head and file a slight bevel on the end. I made 3 and used them all.
BTW. If you have a Harbor Freight anywhere near you they have a "Security Bit " kit for under $10 that contains all the hex and Torx bits you will need plus a hex to 1/4 inch drive adapter. I also got my furniture dolly and torque wrenches there,
I hope you got new M7 X 1.0 cap screws and lockwashers. In particular the lockwashers are a little different from the ones I have used before.
Good luck. Just take your time and the job is easy.
Yes about the bolts! Longer than 110 mm will be to your advantage! Personally I'd get and use 4 of them on all 4 corners of the bell housing as I think it would greatly assist in aligning everything up while sliding the tranny into the clutch pask. I also cut the heads off the bolts and used a bench grinder to smooth and round off the non threaded end of the bolt/dowels. As far as the 7mm washers, I grew up knowing them as Belville washers. I found them at Home Deep Hole.
The 7M X 1.0 hex head cap screws from BMW parts are so incredible soft material. Only 1 Rockwell hardness than taffy I think. Extreme care must be used when tightening/torquing the clutch pack to the flywheel! They will strip the threads in a nano second.
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:39 AM   #306
Shango
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Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 52
Thanks guys, I am heading out soon to get the parts and I'll get the washers too. I was just going to reuse my old ones thinking that the reason they used stretch bolts was to eliminate lock washers. Not always I guess...
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:08 AM   #307
facetjoint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shango View Post
Thanks guys, I am heading out soon to get the parts and I'll get the washers too. I was just going to reuse my old ones thinking that the reason they used stretch bolts was to eliminate lock washers. Not always I guess...

Seriously, they are really soft! Be sure to bring your glycerine pills to put under your tongue if you go to BMW to buy the bolts when they hand you the bill? Or in reality BMW means Bring Money in Wads. It is insane really, the price that is!
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Old 08-02-2012, 04:27 PM   #308
Shango
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Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by facetjoint View Post
Seriously, they are really soft! Be sure to bring your glycerine pills to put under your tongue if you go to BMW to buy the bolts when they hand you the bill? Or in reality BMW means Bring Money in Wads. It is insane really, the price that is!
Just got back, glad I got the washers as they are... Different. All bolts and washers totaled $30. Glycerine pills I had so I saved money there.

I'm shocked as to how little material is on the friction plate before you hit rivets. I'll be modifying a vw puck while I ride this one out for sure now.

The fun begins...
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:46 PM   #309
GmanVic
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Location: Victoria, BC, Lotusland
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Lurk! This may be useful info since I am about break my piggy bank for a new clutch for my 1997 r11gs! (and I am vw fan!)
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:26 AM   #310
marco-polo
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Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Suburban Philly
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Rather than pick up a VW clutch and have it modified, or forking out for a BMW OEM one, I just ordered a Surflex clutch from Italy, about $105 shipped with the current euro exchange rate.

The model for R1100RT's like mine is the 14M25, although those looking for a sintered clutch can also pick up the 14M80 for an extra 20 EUR or so. They have a pretty complete product line, although they don't seem to have much of a sales presence in North America (the US distributor is a one-man show, and doesn't have any experience with the BMW part of Surflex's lineup.).

Will take pictures of the installation and post to ADV when they're up.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:15 PM   #311
facetjoint
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Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Phx. AZ. The land of shake and bake
Oddometer: 5,607
Keep us posted on this please! I for one would like to see pics of it please? For a buck twenty Americanese money, it is not out of line. Especially if it is a direct fit and does not require any Taco Technology like mine did. But it is still running! Shifts are as smooth as snot on a door knob both up and down through the rake. And no slipping.
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:17 PM   #312
Fabricator guy
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Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Near Niagara Falls Ontario Canada
Oddometer: 4
Question Shim placemnet dilema?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderhoof View Post
How to change an R1100/1150RT Clutch


General Notes:
a. Use a Clymer or BMW manual to help you visualize the tasks. Also good for theory and torque values.
b. Organize the parts you remove. Use a cupcake tray for screws / bolts from each area.

c. I am doing this from memory Check your work.Place bike on center stand. It should be in third gear or higher.
  1. Support front wheel firmly so bike will be stable with back end removed.
  2. Remove seats and mirrors and bags.
  3. Remove black triangle parts both sides.
  4. Remove both main side trim panels.
  5. Remove air filter cover , air filter and intake tube.
  6. Remove left side storage compartment and forward air intake.
  7. Remove fuel tank. Disconnect multipin connector on right near hoses. Get hose clamps for two larger hoses in advance. Mark one large and one small hose to avoid mixup. Buy screw type hose clamps for refit. (Change fuel filter in tank while things are apart.)
  8. Remove three airbox mounting screws. Two forward on side one inside at rear.
  9. Remove Battery and two nuts in the tray underneath
  10. Remove left side footpeg plate and disconnect shifter.
  11. Cut ziptie on starter motor to release wires for kickstand and oil level. Remove starter motor assembly.
  12. Remove right footpeg plate. Disconnect brake pedal from cylinder and rear brake cylinder from plate. Disconnect clamp for two rear brake lines from tranny body.
  13. Remove mounting bolts for rear caliper and pull out ABS sensor. (Preserve shims). Tie both to upper frame.
  14. Remove muffler.
  15. Left side. Disconnect 3 connectors near fuse box. Cut zip ties running down frame.
  16. Left and right sides. Release clamps on throttle body intakes and disconnect from throttle bodies. It may be necessary to release throttle bodies from engine. Disconnect fuel lines to injectors.
  17. Remove four cap screws holding frame together and loosen pivot rod above forward screws. See Clymer.
  18. Fit two lifting straps from handlebars to back end of bike.
  19. Pull up tail 3 or 4 inches at a time. Check both sides for stretched wires. Cut zip ties I forgot. Rear brake lines to ABS will flex as you raise the rear.
  20. Lift rear until the airbox can be removed. Watch fuel lines on forward side, They will stay with airbox / pressure regulator.
    That is the hard part. Now the clutch.
  21. Remove upper left and lower right tranny mounting bolts and replace with guide studs. I used a third one upper right too.
  22. Brace tranny on a dolly for removal. The better you do this the easier to install it later. Leave on the rear wheel, It makes it easier to back out the the tranny/ rear drive and re-install it.
    I have only a little advice for the rest of the job.
    a. Use a torque wrench when reassembling most parts.
    b. Use Permatex or whatever anti-seize on all bolts into aluminum. I also put some on the exhaust pipe before reassembly.
    c. Use a clutch centering tool. You will go nuts if you don't. Don't forget the proper grease in the designated places. If you are not sure what to use buy the BMW stuff.
  23. d. Line the tranny up carefully when reinstalling. Move the parts as close together as you can and still reach in to mate the shift rod with the spring disk. It will mate fine at the back end but it is tricky to mate the rod at the front end.
    e. The upper left and lower right tranny bolts also have alignment sleeves. They should snap into place as you remate the parts.
    f. Jack up the rear link with a car jack so the tire is just off the ground. With the bike in gear you can rock the wheel back and forth as you mate the parts.
I love this line: Refit is the reverse of the disassembly.
Big thanks for thios info, I am wrestling with shim placement, no resistance at the lever? I expected to have to go the the limit of adjustmnet due to the increased friction material htickness of the Sachs spring hub VW plate. 94 R1100RS was all origional clutch pieces at 50,000 Kms. Hard Iron parts ok kept old spring plate? Any light you can shed on shim placemnet would be apreciated..Kev
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Old 08-11-2013, 08:38 AM   #313
marco-polo
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Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Suburban Philly
Oddometer: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by facetjoint View Post
Keep us posted on this please! I for one would like to see pics of it please? For a buck twenty Americanese money, it is not out of line. Especially if it is a direct fit and does not require any Taco Technology like mine did. But it is still running! Shifts are as smooth as snot on a door knob both up and down through the rake. And no slipping.
I didn't take a lot of good photos, but the Surflex clutch is good stuff; I've put about 2500 miles on it, including a 24 hour rally, and once I properly adjusted the cable, it's a vast improvement over the worn-out BMW OEM clutch plate. It's still a little grabby, but that's a new-clutch ailment.

Interesting but trivial point about the Surflex clutch: the friction material is a very light grey, rather than the OEM dark grey. Not sure what that means, if anything, but perhaps someone who knows more than I do can pipe up.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:24 AM   #314
thunderhoof
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Joined: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Oddometer: 24
Shims and VW clutch plate

As I posted up the line somewhere I tried the VW plate plus shims and I could not get it to work right. As it turns out the throw at the clutch rod is not much so the exact position of the clutch operating rod is important otherwise no amount of cable adjustment will get the rod to operate. I finally gave up and bought the stock clutch plate. I see there may be an aftermarket item that will split the difference in cost.
I also want to repeat that using an 1150 spring plate is important. Not only is it stiffer but slightly thicker which gives a bit more adjustment range over time.
The force at the lever is not significantly greater with the 1150 spring plate.
I have about 5K miles on the new clutch and it has not required any readjustment at all.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:44 PM   #315
Fabricator guy
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Location: Near Niagara Falls Ontario Canada
Oddometer: 4
Laugh Clutch inf Part Duh

Thanks so much for the feedback..I guess I will scrap the vw plate and try and get the old stock plate resurfaced. It was fun trying though.....Cheers, Kev
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