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Old 02-19-2010, 09:09 AM   #31
LukasM
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No need to measure the rim, the size is engraved on the inner part of the ring.

Only a few years of the LC4 SM models used wider clamps (210mm), but they also have a wider left fork lug that only fits the gold 4 piston Brembo caliper.

All SX and EXC as well as most LC4s have 190mm fork tube spacing, I am pretty sure that the LC8 has the same? If so, all spacers hubs etc will interchange (watch your axle size though!).

Not sure how heavy your bike will end up being on the front, but you probably want a .50 -.54 spring depending on your weight. I think the 950 came with .48 stock which is undersprung for 99% of riders.
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Old 02-24-2010, 04:33 AM   #32
WayneC1
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KTM SX Parts

The 640Adv and 950 Yokes are the same part no's with the exception of the SE noted above

There is a choice of 18 or 20mm offset on the SX Yokes & as LukasM points out most were 20mm. The F650GS is 21mm offset

Re fork width even back to the 20mm axle 4357's width is 190mm

Re fitting the SX yokes to the GS, the 950 yoke is actually easier as it mounts the ignition switch a couple of mm further forward & the adaptor plate Sellmeyer & garageTV use is the simplest, The SX yoke will work but adaption is needed, will post some pics on this in the future.

The SX front wheel takes the 950 300 mm front disc and the 950 caliper hanger fits the 4357

The 950 caliper is the same as the GS, a big thanks goes to Sellmeyer for his assistance in confirming the calipers

Re longer length of the 4357's this is simple to change for the GS, use the 35mm rebound spring with 24 mm spacer, it reduces fork length back & reduces travel at the same time to 260 mm, there is a further 17-18 mm travel reduction possible by adjustment in the hydraulic stop position, again done by fitting a spacer.

WayneC1 screwed with this post 02-24-2010 at 04:45 AM
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:43 AM   #33
sellmeyer OP
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Hey Wayne, thanks for chiming in on this.

Can you tell us what model & years of the KTMs featured the 4357 forks? I don't even remember what model I have.
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:49 AM   #34
LukasM
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4357 is just the model name of the old 43mm forks. The 48mm ones are called 4860.

I think the very nice billet adjustable offset (18/20mm) clamps were stock on 05-09 SX bikes, maybe Wayne can confirm?
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Old 02-24-2010, 04:34 PM   #35
WayneC1
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The KTM's fitted with 4357's are

2000 to 2002 - 250, 300, 380 SX, MX, EX
2000 to 2002 - 400/520 (4860 optional in 2002)
2000 to 2005 - 620/625 SX
2000 to 2005 - 640 Enduro

I think some of the 85/105's also run them but did not look as I was interested in the larger capacity machines with the SX yokes. There seem to be differences in those under 125cc

Re the later models & adjustable yokes, dont know, The 06 & later have the newer style closed cartridges & I was tracking the valving & valve body changes on the open cartridge forks.

I posted into the thread below the details on how the valving changed between year models on the 4357 & 4860's. I found different people had little bits of the info but no one had compiled all the info into one place

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=43

The thread also has some good information on shimming the LC640Adv which is the closest in weight to the GS.

Have put all the valving data into a spreadsheet so can email it to anyone who wants it

Edit - Forgot, I did see one of the US KTM dealers dumping a large volume of stock as specials including a lot of the adjustable yokes when I was doing a search not long back. They were all for 4860's & I have 4357 so was not relevant to me

WayneC1 screwed with this post 02-24-2010 at 04:49 PM
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:19 AM   #36
WayneC1
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Found a thread over on wilddog forum about another WP 4357 conversion worth taking a look at

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=27759.0
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:25 PM   #37
milk budda
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How you doing? This all looks great. I have a F650 RR an its awesome.
One thing I think you might want to keep in mind is the Rallye Fairing is really made for standing on the pegs. With that being said keep in mind the height of the fairing when your sitting down, you cant see through the fairing.
My bike has a 40 inch seat height (which sucks!!!!) and at 5' 7" lowering the seat....makes the fairing a bother. Just a thought.

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Old 02-25-2010, 06:08 PM   #38
WayneC1
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Milk Budda

Any chance of you having info on the WP rear shock on your machine ?

There is considerable confusion re shock length & stroke out there, any info like WP Part No, length, stroke etc would be greatly appreciated

Did you get owners manuals for the forks & shock ?

BTW, nice machine, what are the side bags you are using ?
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:35 PM   #39
sellmeyer OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneC1
Milk Budda

Did you get owners manuals for the forks & shock ?

BTW, nice machine, what are the side bags you are using ?

For what its worth, my WP owners manual doesn't say squat about my shock. I don't know what spring is on it nor what stroke it offers. I'm pretty sure it is setup with the same stroke as the OE Showa for the Dakar and the model offered by Hyperpro. I'll dig it out again and have another look at it just to be sure.

I'll bet that the RR shock on the white bike is the same as what is offered on the TT site...I think they list the spring but not the stroke. They claim 250mm of travel at the rear, but one would have to do the math to get back to the stroke...I believe the equation is linear, so this shouldn't be hard to sort.


Those bags look like wolfman up on the seat and Ortlieb on the sides for panniers. I think the panniers are the same as what are sold for bicycle use.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:56 PM   #40
sellmeyer OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milk budda
How you doing? This all looks great. I have a F650 RR an its awesome.
One thing I think you might want to keep in mind is the Rallye Fairing is really made for standing on the pegs. With that being said keep in mind the height of the fairing when your sitting down, you cant see through the fairing.
My bike has a 40 inch seat height (which sucks!!!!) and at 5' 7" lowering the seat....makes the fairing a bother. Just a thought.
I get what you are saying about the fairing height; I've been considering this and trying to come up with the best compromise. I have been riding with the single spark tall Dakar screen with black paint on it. I don't see through it, rather over it...for me, I know I can go higher.

Two considerations:

1) I figure I can go higher without obstructing my forward view too much; I don't need to increase the height too much to get better wind protection. Also, if I widen the profile a bit that will give me more room for instruments behind it than what I get with the tall screen.

2) I am also thinking about making the top half of it clear. I've seen how others here have formed their own plastic screens using heat guns and they seem to get pretty good results. Right now I'm not clear on how good the optics would be if I used my mold to do the shaping of the plastic...in the past I have not had great luck with aircraft canopies doing this but I am willing to make a fresh go of it.


One favor, if you don't mind.

Can you measure the height of the top edge of the TT fairing? The measurement which would mean the most to me would be one that I can normalize and repeat on my bike, this means factoring out the suspension from the equation.

I'm thinking that you'd need a plumb line, a few pieces of tape, and a 2' or 3' level; maybe an extra set of hands. I'm interested in the horizontal distance between the rear swingarm pivot point and the vertical line at which you measure the max height of the fairing, plus the vertical measurement from this line to the top of the fairing.

Start with the plumb line taped to the tallest part of the fairing and hanging over the side of the bike; if possible use a stick or something taped to the fairing to get the line out over the edge of the bike so the plumb line is vertical and thus providing an accurate measurement later.

Next use the level to set the horizontal reference point from the plumb line to the rear swingarm pivot point. Mark the points on the level where the pivot point and the plumb line are using tape. This horizontal measurement is made with the level, level of course. Next mark the point on the plumb line where the level meets it; measure from that point to the top of the fairing and that is the vertical measurement.

-I can reference these two dimensions against what I have got and see where I stand. I'm thinking that I'll be a bit lower than the TT setup, but it would be nice to know for sure.




BTW, how can you manage to ride the RR being only 5x7? Is your suspension lowered...? obviously not if you have a 40" seat height. What is the whole story?
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Old 03-02-2010, 11:15 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneC1
Milk Budda

Any chance of you having info on the WP rear shock on your machine ?

There is considerable confusion re shock length & stroke out there, any info like WP Part No, length, stroke etc would be greatly appreciated

Did you get owners manuals for the forks & shock ?

BTW, nice machine, what are the side bags you are using ?
Nice project here.
I'm also desperately trying to find out exact the setup your WP shock is and how it compares to the one from the RR bikes by TT.

Regarding the Height of the fairing. My plan was to use a heat gun and plexiglass to form the 3-piece front fairing, and just paint the lower portion. Sorta like what the 990 ADV is.

Can't wait to see some more pictures of your project.
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:37 PM   #42
sellmeyer OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMacW650
Nice project here.
I'm also desperately trying to find out exact the setup your WP shock is and how it compares to the one from the RR bikes by TT.
have a look here:

http://www.bikehps.com/wp/WP_fitment_guide.pdf

there is a listing for what I have; sadly there isn't much useful info there. I have the Fusion model with the remote reservoir and remote preload adjuster. Since there is NO WP interface here in the states, good information is difficult to come by.

I tried to get at more info via KTM dealers, since WP is owned by KTM, but they were only able to reference KTM part numbers. Pretty much a dead end.

sellmeyer screwed with this post 10-15-2010 at 12:52 PM
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Old 03-02-2010, 06:31 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmeyer
have a look here:

http://www.bikehps.com/wp/WP_fitment_guide.pdf

there is a listing for what I have; sadly there isn't much useful info there. I have the Fusion model with the remote reservoir and remote preload adjuster. Since there is WP interface here in the states, good information is difficult to come by.

I tried to get at more info via KTM dealers, since WP is owned by KTM, but they were only able to reference KTM part numbers. Pretty much a dead end.
Was there an option to lengthen the shock when you ordered yours? It would be nice to have the same travel as the TT's WP shocks with remote preload adjuster.
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Old 03-02-2010, 06:54 PM   #44
sellmeyer OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMacW650
Was there an option to lengthen the shock when you ordered yours? It would be nice to have the same travel as the TT's WP shocks with remote preload adjuster.
When I purchased mine I was not looking for extra travel over stock, so I didn't ask for it. I believe that my current setup maintains the 210mm travel at front and rear, or about 8.25" each.

The WP shock advertised by TT indicates 250mm at the rear. I believe that you could get this on my shock, but you'd have to get someone overseas to do the homework for you. I have the fusion shock, which itself is pretty standard. As far as I can tell, the only thing that makes it unique to the BMW is the lower c-clamp for the tension strut.

I believe that you might be able to get someone who deals with WP to spec the fusion shock from another application, one with a longer spring and piston, and get them to request the BMW lower clamp. They pretty much match the spring and valving to your specs anyway, so all of this should be possible.

I'll do some digging and see if I can locate my contact in the UK who shipped the shock to me; he'd be a good person to start a conversation about this.

-though if you are on a budget and need the longer travel at the rear, just buy the one from TT. You wouldn't get the preload or the dual mode compression adjustments, but you'd get something that would work pretty well and it would cost you no more than $1000 shipped. Going across the pond for something more custom than what I have will likely cost another $250+ over the TT unit.

For what its worth, there are plenty of people on this site who have good things to say about the WP-TT unit. MaxKool had one for several years on his dakar before he moved to the G650X. I believe that he only sold the Dakar because he wanted a lighter bike, not because he thought the suspension was lacking.
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Old 03-02-2010, 07:08 PM   #45
sellmeyer OP
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some progress this past week

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMacW650
Regarding the Height of the fairing. My plan was to use a heat gun and plexiglass to form the 3-piece front fairing, and just paint the lower portion. Sorta like what the 990 ADV is.

So I can't read into your comment about "height", specifically. Did you have a specific height in mind that you thought was ideal for a fairing or windscreen? Right now I'm at about +5cm over the single spark Dakar windscreen...but this number is still variable because I have not yet determined the fore/aft placement of the peak. The farther forward the peak, the more it impacts the line of sight. Moving the peak back towards the rider allows for a taller windscreen.


Regarding construction, what 3 pieces did you have in mind for the front fairing? Currently I am expecting 3 pieces too.
1) fairing/windscreen, monocoque construction from mold
2) instrument panel/dash board, single piece
3) fairing mounting bracket to main frame, single piece
If I decide to put one of these on my wife's bike, or if I decide the height really impacts the line of sight forward of the bike, I'll investigate going with a plastic top portion of the windscreen...something that I can bolt onto the main part of the front fairing so that I can keep it as a single unit.

I'd rather not go with a whole plastic front due to weight and durability concerns; so in that respect it won't be a significant plastic portion if there at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMacW650
Can't wait to see some more pictures of your project.
-more pics coming. 1st mold for the light bracket was completed last week. Now that I have confirmed to myself that I can still make a decent mold I'm working up to either a fender mold or an engine guard mold this weekend; whichever master looks good first.

The fairing master is on the bike, but still not good enough to show.

Here are two of the 1st mold:

Photo 14 - light bracket master in form


Photo 15 - light bracket prototype with lights on new mold


Photo 16 - prototype lights on Dakar


Photo 17 - one more shot of the lights on the Dakar


The 1st production article will have a better finish on it; I'll likely ditch the 3 stock adjuster screws and simply glue the bracket to the fairing bracket then use individual adjuster screws on the lights.

sellmeyer screwed with this post 03-02-2010 at 07:28 PM
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