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Old 03-02-2010, 07:29 PM   #46
BMacW650
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Nice work man.
I'm still waiting for my Hella lights (same as yours 60mm, high and low) to ship from Germany.

I will do a HID conversion and mount them vertically.

Here is what I have done so far for the front.




And this is a failed attempt with x2. I didn't like the look that's why I'm going to make my own fairings, more or less like the KTM 690 rally bikes.


Thanks again for the information. Keep us posted.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:34 PM   #47
sellmeyer OP
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Engine Guard Mold under way

Well the past few weeks have been a bit slow in terms of measurable progress, but its been steady progress nevertheless. Mostly I've been sanding on the masters for the Engine Guard and the Fender, but I've also been at work on the front fairing as well. There was an internal debate here in the basement as to which of the first two would get molded next.

Since I'm really excited about making headway on the Front Fairing, I figured I should do the Fender so that I could get the first article made and on the bike. I figured the fender was really important in order to ensure that the lines between it and the fairing matched up...

...while this is true, I opted for the Engine Guard because I wanted to further prefect my techniques before tackling the Fender. Since the Engine Guard is likely going to be coated with something like truck bed liner, the surface finish on it doesn't need to be as pristine as the Fender. Anyway, as I wait for epoxy to cure on the next two molds I think I can keep working on some of the Front Fairing bits that are not concerned with the Fender interface..

So onto the Engine Guard.

I'm working much harder on this one than I did the light bracket; I want to ensure the finish of the Engine Guard is pretty darn good, in part because I know the Fender needs a good finish. Practice is certainly going to improve the finished parts that come out of future molds.

So on this one I've made sure that I've filled and leveled all of the surfaces. I have primed the master, painted it, and clear coated it with lots of sanding between jobs. This part of the process has dragged on and I finally decided that it was good enough to move ahead.

Tonight I got the red-painted Engine Guard master in the beginnings of a form for the mold. I need to put up some additional parting walls to complete the deal and then prep it with release. I've got an exam at school tomorrow night so I won't be able to get on this again until after work on Thursday. Fingers crossed that I can begin layup after work on Friday and have the master out of the mold on Sunday.

here are some pics...

Photo 18 - Engine Guard Master in forms


Photo 19 - Engine Guard Master w/early prototype shell


The initial mock-up was a single layer of fiberglass pulled off the early shape of the master. When I did the trial fit on the Dakar it was almost good to go on the first shot; only a little mod work for brake pedal clearance needed to be worked out. I didn't even bother with a 2nd shell because I was confident in the master at that point.

The mold as it is being prepared in the photos will leave the top lip off for a second part of the mold. Once the first part is done I'll have ~90% of the part covered with it; the balance will come with a second part of the mold built on top of the 1st part and the master. I have company at the house next week so I might not be able to get to work on it until the following weekend.

Anyway, things seem to be turning out pretty good so far. More to come!
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:40 PM   #48
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Sellmeyer

Nice work look forward to seeing the completed units

Re the Engine Guard, the Voltage Regulator will overheat behind it if you dont get some cooling to it or relocate it

The regulator relocation I did and wrote up over at f650 has proven itself well & truly now.

Only just now coming up for battery replacement, 6 years on this battery & been in some very high heat situations. No sign of overvoltage output from the VReg unlike when it was in the stock position down behind the engine guard

EDIT - Link to f650 thread, just for Taco, new I forgot something earlier

http://f650.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=223670

There is also a thread I started on advrider about it but image has gone missing

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394460

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Old 03-10-2010, 02:49 AM   #49
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link?
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:19 AM   #50
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RE: cooling of the VR w/new engine guard

I'm seeing the posts about the VR concerns and I'm a bit surprised, actually. I'd like to read a bit more into your link. I've read it before, but it has been a while-refresher read needed.


-Originally the VRs on both our bikes lived between the fuel tank and the engine. In my assessment, this isn't a good thing because there is very little airflow in there. I figured two things:
1) relocating the VR down by the engine guard per the BMW revision would only benefit it, not make the heat dissipation worse

2) if there wasn't good heat dissipation in the new location behind the engine guard, I could add an airflow director on top of the engine guard to force the freestream air down onto the VR.
I'm more concerned with the build-up of heat around the water pump and exhaust header than I am with the VR. I've not seen anyone do a proper heat shield on the inside of a composite engine guard-they always seem burned by the header. I have a good heat shield mat that will go on the LHS of the engine guard where the header is...but I'm afraid I'll be blasting the water pump with added heat.

I'm working on a few ideas on what to do there; undoubtedly they'll carry over to the VR side too in one way or another.

-thoughts?
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:31 AM   #51
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thoughts on battery relocation?

Hey Wayne,

Had a chance to read both of your posts in the links provided. It all came back to me again. In my experience around home I have not had any issues with over charging...I'm wondering how you measured your voltage during the testing part of your experiment? My method was to go off the voltage reported by my GPS, which seemed to match battery voltage when tested during a stationary run-up. Maybe you put your leads someplace else that gave you more consistent/accurate readings than I could get?

My wife definitely burned up her Yausa batter in Mexico in the Summer when we went to Guatemala...her VR was in its OE location in front of the fuel tank. I was running a new sealed battery and we were only out 10 weeks...so no problems for me.

When we got back home I installed the TT Rallye Engine Guard w/storage on my wife's bike and per the instructions the VR was mounted to it. I think the combination of adding a big piece of aluminum to augment the heat sink helped, and being back home @ 2500 meters. Here in the rocky mountains it isn't quite as hot as down in OZ.

For now I am going to keep the VR where it is, behind the engine guard. I'm going to do this to keep the wiring as it is and because I'm running low on time and long on parts to make. That being said, I'm definitely thinking about moving the VR in future revisions to the bike...a simple molded bracket would likely be in order.



Something new. Seeing now that you are all things electric, how about your thoughts on putting the battery between the fuel tank and the engine? There is just enough room to snake a SCORPION sealed battery in there on a fairly simple bracket. I think there might even be enough room to get the battery box fully wrapped with the heat shielding mat that I'm using on the engine guard.

I was thinking about this for three reasons:
1) the single spark bikes don't have remote jump start terminals like the 2-spark bikes, so getting a jump start is a PITA; new location would ease this

2) having the battery down lower like that would also help lower the CG a bit

3) the battery is pretty much the only thing preventing a person from reconfiguring the airbox arrangement...move the battery and take out the OE airbox->what is left is a bunch of space for making a glove box like the KTM 9X0 bikes and putting on a better snorkle and air filter.


Wayne, your thoughts on the relocated battery idea, please.

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Old 03-10-2010, 09:16 AM   #52
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Wow, that engine guard looks business.
Are you going to make some storage room out of it too? Are you planning on selling those?

I'm having a hard time prototyping the front fairings. I stacked up foam boards and was gonna shave it off little by little. That did work very well, because I just can work/envision in 3D. Also I tried chicken wire, but without a frame it's very hard to work with.

I think my next attempt will be mount 3 plates(front +2 sides) to the bracket and slowly add modeling clay or foam to it.

Do you have any suggestion?
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:32 AM   #53
sellmeyer OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMacW650
Wow, that engine guard looks business.
Are you going to make some storage room out of it too? Are you planning on selling those?
yes, there is storage planned for the engine guard. A portion of the front of the guard will have a removeable plate to access the storage and it will be secured with some form of quarter turn captive fastener. The actual dimensions of the storage will get sorted out once I get the first article made and begin fitting the bulkhead to it. I think I'll have room on the LHS to extend the storage aft beyond the bulkhead so that I can get some long tire irons in there...we'll see.

yes, I am planning to sell just about everything I'm making...which is precisely why I'm putting so much energy into good molds. I like it when I can make the same part over and over again w/o variability. It is also really nice to pull a part out of a mold and go straight to paint without having to do any body work. I hate the filling and smoothing process because it just eats up the calendar. You'll soon realize what I mean when you start shaping your front fairing. I'm counting on my investment in time today paying off later when I can make more parts quickly and easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMacW650
I'm having a hard time prototyping the front fairings.

Do you have any suggestion?
Dupont blue foam works the best because it balances machinability with density pretty well. Said another way, it holds its shape because its stiff, it doesn't get abused too much in the shop because its hard, but sanding it to shape is easy.

Stick with that, okay? You can find the foam at most home improvement places in the insulation section. I like the 2" blocks rather than the thin stuff.

Since you already have your bracket under way, I'd complete it with lights and all of the stuff you need, then add a few temporary brackets to it so that you can stick the foam blocks to the bracket. From there you can cut and sand it to the shape you need.

I am going at this opposite from you. I know what I want my bracket to look like and I have sorted out how all of the pieces are going to fit together, but I'm waiting until I have the fairing done before I begin work on the bracket. I figure once I pull the first article out of the fairing mold, it will be pretty straight forward to work on the dimensions of the bracket bits. Everything gets molded, eventually...but it all has to get done AFTER I have defined the shape of the fairing.

Don't use the clay...its heavy and messy and doesn't harden up. Stick with foam because you can keep adding it and taking it away until its right. Maybe use some filler material to smooth things out a bit wherever you have rough spots. In the end you'll need to cover the foam with glass or whatever.

Are you planning on glassing the foam and then removing the foam once the glass is cured? Are you planning on making a 1-off mold?

Tell us a bit more.

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Old 03-10-2010, 11:23 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmeyer
yes, there is storage planned for the engine guard. A portion of the front of the guard will have a removeable plate to access the storage and it will be secured with some form of quarter turn captive fastener. The actual dimensions of the storage will get sorted out once I get the first article made and begin fitting the bulkhead to it. I think I'll have room on the LHS to extend the storage aft beyond the bulkhead so that I can get some long tire irons in there...we'll see.

yes, I am planning to sell just about everything I'm making...which is precisely why I'm putting so much energy into good molds. I like it when I can make the same part over and over again w/o variability. It is also really nice to pull a part out of a mold and go straight to paint without having to do any body work. I hate the filling and smoothing process because it just eats up the calendar. You'll soon realize what I mean when you start shaping your front fairing. I'm counting on my investment in time today paying off later when I can make more parts quickly and easily.



Dupont blue foam works the best because it balances machinability with density pretty well. Said another way, it holds its shape because its stiff, it doesn't get abused too much in the shop because its hard, but sanding it to shape is easy.

Stick with that, okay? You can find the foam at most home improvement places in the insulation section. I like the 2" blocks rather than the thin stuff.

Since you already have your bracket under way, I'd complete it with lights and all of the stuff you need, then add a few temporary brackets to it so that you can stick the foam blocks to the bracket. From there you can cut and sand it to the shape you need.

I am going at this opposite from you. I know what I want my bracket to look like and I have sorted out how all of the pieces are going to fit together, but I'm waiting until I have the fairing done before I begin work on the bracket. I figure once I pull the first article out of the fairing mold, it will be pretty straight forward to work on the dimensions of the bracket bits. Everything gets molded, eventually...but it all has to get done AFTER I have defined the shape of the fairing.

Don't use the clay...its heavy and messy and doesn't harden up. Stick with foam because you can keep adding it and taking it away until its right. Maybe use some filler material to smooth things out a bit wherever you have rough spots. In the end you'll need to cover the foam with glass or whatever.

Are you planning on glassing the foam and then removing the foam once the glass is cured? Are you planning on making a 1-off mold?

Tell us a bit more.
I already have my lights mounted. Mine is vertical so I will keep my fairing narrow. I found that the 03 Dakar windscreen has a pretty good form for my application.


I was being skimpy and got the cheaper pink foam from homedepot. Still, I got stuck at this step. I can draw pretty well, but sculpting is out my league.


Mine is probably gonna be one off. I don't think I will make a casting mold. Probably just use the template and start laying glass on it. Sand, fill, trim as needed.
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:39 AM   #55
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Okay BMAC,

I see where you are at...looks like quite the challenge because you don't have any way to create reference points. What I mean by that is you have sufaces which are not smooth or mirrored right to left. I'd be looking for a way to cut the sides smooth and to have them match each other.

I'm not familiar with the pink foam that you have so I don't know what to suggest that you use to cut it. I use a hot wire on the blue foam for cutting. You might see how the pink stuff reacts to heat; try heading a good needle in a pair of pliers...if you can cut the foam nicely with the needle then get yourself a hotwire and cut away.

Once you have the left and right sides smooth, and matching, you can begin mapping out the side profiles from left to right. Once you have those profiles marked on the foam, you can cut each one so they look good from the side.

From there you can begin work on the front of the fairing to do all of the contours and blending to the sides. I strongly recommend that you leave the foam in BLOCK form without contours until you are happy with the side profile. As you shape the foam, work in small cuts until you zero in on the shape you want.

Once the pink blob looks like a pink fairing, you're ready to cover in glass. Afterward you might try to carve out the foam until you can get the glass off the bike. From there disolve the foam with whatever works and then begin your cleanup.


A few things you will want to know before you get too far along: Have you figured out how you will attach the fairing to your bracket yet? Have you already secured the side body plastics to the bracket yet? Have you worked out how you are going to get the fairing to blend with the body plastics?


I have opted to secure the body plastics directly to the bracket and will secure the fairing separately. The only common fasteners that I am considering between the plastics and the fairing are the two that are on the bottom front part of the plastics. Other than that I can't figure out a really clean way to combine them, say the two fasteners on the top front of the body plastics.

-what are you thinking here?
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:20 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmeyer
Okay BMAC,

I see where you are at...looks like quite the challenge because you don't have any way to create reference points. What I mean by that is you have sufaces which are not smooth or mirrored right to left. I'd be looking for a way to cut the sides smooth and to have them match each other.

I'm not familiar with the pink foam that you have so I don't know what to suggest that you use to cut it. I use a hot wire on the blue foam for cutting. You might see how the pink stuff reacts to heat; try heading a good needle in a pair of pliers...if you can cut the foam nicely with the needle then get yourself a hotwire and cut away.

Once you have the left and right sides smooth, and matching, you can begin mapping out the side profiles from left to right. Once you have those profiles marked on the foam, you can cut each one so they look good from the side.

From there you can begin work on the front of the fairing to do all of the contours and blending to the sides. I strongly recommend that you leave the foam in BLOCK form without contours until you are happy with the side profile. As you shape the foam, work in small cuts until you zero in on the shape you want.

Once the pink blob looks like a pink fairing, you're ready to cover in glass. Afterward you might try to carve out the foam until you can get the glass off the bike. From there disolve the foam with whatever works and then begin your cleanup.


A few things you will want to know before you get too far along: Have you figured out how you will attach the fairing to your bracket yet? Have you already secured the side body plastics to the bracket yet? Have you worked out how you are going to get the fairing to blend with the body plastics?


I have opted to secure the body plastics directly to the bracket and will secure the fairing separately. The only common fasteners that I am considering between the plastics and the fairing are the two that are on the bottom front part of the plastics. Other than that I can't figure out a really clean way to combine them, say the two fasteners on the top front of the body plastics.

-what are you thinking here?
That's very helpful information. Hopefully, I can make some headway on that.

The pink insulation foam board is not as dense as the blue one, but it certainly is workable. I have been using a grinder for trimming. I will try hot wire.

The tip of the side panels have 2 holes on each side to receive the turn signal panel. I want to use these holes and overlap my fairing over them. (similar to how the side panels are connected to the center piece). Up front, I'm gonna make 2 tilt-adjustable bolt between the 2 lights. and attache the front of the fairing that way. That's how the KTM 690 RR does it. http://mototribu.com/constructeur/kt...e_2009_004.JPG

I'm looking forward to seeing more great ideas from your project.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:36 PM   #57
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Things are starting to clear up a bit for me now:

what about this?



Damn I wish that picture were smaller...its blowing out the post!

I'm looking at the fairing and I see a pair of DZUS style fasteners on either side of the light stack. I guess that is what you are talking about.

Make note of the fact that those are not the only two fasteners holding the fairing on the bike. Make sure you have enough.


Right now my fastener count for the fairing is 4+2 if I don't comingle with the two on the bottom front portion of the body plastics. The plastics need to retain all of their fasteners so that they will stay put. The fairing can, but doesn't need to utilize those same fasteners.

Right now I'm up to one at the top center of the fairing above the lights, one on the bottom center under the oil cooler and covered by the fender...if the fender prevents me from getting to this fastener I'll forgo it and use the two for the plastics. Then on the sides I have 1 each. The +2 comes into play with the turn signals...

I've opted to stay with the OE style turn signal pods instead of using flush mount ones. The flush mount variety just don't do the job that they are supposed to. I'll secure the turn signals with a simliar or identical quick release fastener as I use on the fairing at the other 4 or 5 points. In this way I can quickly remove the turn signals from the bike if I'm only trail riding and don't need DOT compliance.

The 4 or 5 fasteners are enough to fully secure the fairing to the bracket. The added 2 for the turn signals just add a bit more security when the turn signals are mounted.

Are you going to make use of the silver OE turn signal mounts with the 4 fasteners each? I'm not sure what you mean by turn signal panels.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:49 PM   #58
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Looking good there!
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:55 PM   #59
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Re the VR

You will see the overheat in the VR with a voltmeter easily, I have one set up permanently in the dash. One indication is when you are in traffic the voltage will stay up rather than dropping back to 12.5v at traffic lights. Look at the XTrail & where BMW mount the VR, their bracket will likely work but comes at a price, the bracket to put it on the side of the motor is lighter and eliminates the curved cover as well, even better all the wiring from alternator is then lifted up off the motor. Resistance of wire increases with temperature
In terms of battery inspection, I only need to do it 3 - 4 times per anum

Re battery relocation

Dwayne did a good write up on that here on advrider a while back & proved it's viability, he said he felt he could feel the change in the machine after doing it. I know with mine and the other upper body weight reduction I did people comment on how easy mine is to move off the side stand compared to their own machines. Moving weight lower will have an effect on how it feels. Once moving mine feels so much lighter now

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...t=f650+battery

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Old 03-10-2010, 06:58 PM   #60
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You recommend this VR relocation for maintenance free batts as well? Haven't had any issues with it with the OEM bash plate, and was going to drill holes in the area on my new DIY bash plate. But I don't have to I might just move it.
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