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Old 04-22-2010, 04:14 PM   #211
XT_Driftwood
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Alright, I just pulled the seat off mine. The side stand switch wires do not plug in to the CDI box, at least not directly.

Look for a pair of wires coming from the trunk line of the wiring harness about an inch behind the point where the red battery wire comes out. It'd be on the right side of the bike, very close to the CDI box. Mine's an '83 and the wires are solid black and blue with a yellow tracer. They have to be plggged together. If they aren't, the bike thinks the side stand is down.

Let me know if you need a pic.
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:07 PM   #212
newt_sr
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Just for gits and shiggles, what determines which bikes have the 8 or 11 or 12 wired CDI's?

Anybody?
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Old 04-23-2010, 12:46 AM   #213
vudu
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Thanks for all the help guys. Spent another hour or so this arvo. Went through your suggestions, still no luck. Some pic and video follow.

I found and disconnected the wire underneath, near the shifter (darker blue matches the blue to sky blue under the seat). No N light, no start. Disconnected the black wire with white trace on the CDI kept running, snicked into gear, stall! Disconnected all the single CDI wire stalled each time

Earthed the sky blue wire with a vacant black, nup, On mine the sky blue connects to a darker blue. Earthed the dark blue, Neutral light stays on stalled on engaging 1st.

Pulled just about every connector, cleaned as best I can, Inoxed (like WD40) and reconnected. Swapped the NOS regulator with the old one. Nup.

Played with the shifter at idle. Just before the gear engages the engine begins to cut, same if I engage second directly. Has to be electrical.

I'm hot, sweaty and frustrated, must of started it 30 times during the process and it is unusually hot and humid for 4pm in Sydney AU for late April. Does start easy enough when warm. I'd probably have given up long before now if it weren't for the helpful enthusiasm of you lot.

ANZAC Day long weekend is upon us and a big thanks to our armed forces past and present. Ledgens all of 'em. My dad marches on Sunday, he's 73, he got his bike license a couple of months ago! Unbelievable!

Anyhoo.. I do have a good mech that gets old bikes and I may have to see him next week or failing that, XT550 parts anyone!

Sheesh I'm still waiting for the video to load to photobucket hope they are worth it. Fist one with the old CDI and the squeaky miss, second with the HP. Oh and forgive my wobbles.

NOS rec / reg and CDI wires


More CDI wires


CDI's


Wiring Diagram


Bodgy Coil Wiring


Neutral Switch?


I'll post the video shortly

Try these:-




vudu screwed with this post 04-23-2010 at 01:42 AM
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:42 AM   #214
G600
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wow. I understand your frustration, problems like this are no fun at all.

I was starting to wander if you had some weird grounding problem somehow related to the neutral switch, but you have covered that one it seems.

Please keep us posted..
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:56 AM   #215
netjustin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vudu
I found and disconnected the wire underneath, near the shifter (darker blue matches the blue to sky blue under the seat). No N light, no start. Disconnected the black wire with white trace on the CDI kept running, snicked into gear, stall! Disconnected all the single CDI wire stalled each time

Earthed the sky blue wire with a vacant black, nup, On mine the sky blue connects to a darker blue. Earthed the dark blue, Neutral light stays on stalled on engaging 1st.
[...]
Neutral Switch?


I'll post the video shortly

Try these:-
Videos worked nicely. Clearly as you stated this is an electrical problem causing the ignition to cut.

If I remember correctly (and sorry if this was already tried) my Blue/Yellow cable from the diagram is permanently grounded, simulating that the sidestand switch is always in a "closed" position, or rather that the sidestand is always up. That's how I got my 550 motor to run after installing the hyperpack.

I'll take a photo if I can find my harness (550 motor is currently in the shop for repairs! :))
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:19 AM   #216
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how mine works






You can see what I've done here; sidestand switch and ignition ground meet in a ring terminal. not visible is the sky blue "neutral off" lead that goes into the same ring terminal and thus is also grounded full time.

I hope you have a success story for us soon!

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Old 04-23-2010, 09:44 AM   #217
vudu
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That's the kicker. No Blue / Yellow, L/Y on the diagram . Having no sidestand switch I guess its an OZ specific or perhaps 8 wire CDI thing. Its clearly shown on the wiring diagram. I'm starting to think its the neutral switch down near the shifter. S'pose I'll have to drop the oil to find out. Think Yamaha 'll have one in stock?
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Old 04-23-2010, 11:10 AM   #218
netjustin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vudu
the neutral switch down near the shifter
just to be clear, is this lead from the ignition connected to the neutral switch? if so, ground it to the frame instead, then see where you're at.
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Old 04-23-2010, 11:32 AM   #219
vudu
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Doesn't go to the ignition. I did ground the other end to a vacant black wire located near the CDI. I think this is the blue wire that plugs into the sky blue (Sb in the diagram) wire and into the loom, visible in the first pic. But I will try anything once. Disconnecting this wire killed the neutral light and no start. I'll check again when it's light. Thanks netjustin.
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Old 04-23-2010, 01:10 PM   #220
newt_sr
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I don't see a ground wire for your coil (from the coil mounting screw to the cylinder head)
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:59 PM   #221
vudu
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Well spotted Newt, The coil is for an XT500 and grounds to the frame through the mount. I swapped out the orig during troubleshooting the miss. made no difference and have had it running with this setup.
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:04 PM   #222
vudu
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Pissed

Hi Guys, I thought I would double check.

So the blue wire from the Neutral switch near the shifter runs up through the loom and connects to the sky blue wire which then enters another loom and I imagine connects to the neutral light.

Connected, the bike runs then stalls when 1st or 2nd is engaged.

If I disconnect the 2 wires, no neutral light, no start. If the engine is running and I disconnect the wires the engine stalls.

If I disconnect the sky blue wire and connect to earth the neutral light is on but no start. Neutral switch is bypassed?

If I earth the blue wire. No neutral light. Bike starts but stalls when I engage 1st.

This gave me an idea. (not a real good one it turns out)

Earth the blue wire (no neutral light bike runs). Start bike then earth the sky blue wire and put into gear. When I earthed the sky blue wire to the battery, motor running and engaged first, I got a HUGE electric shock and the bike stalled again. SHHIIIIITTTTEEEEE. I'm sure the neighbors heard me scream.

Breaker is not tripped (earthed direct to battery I s'pose). Reconnect blue and sky blue no neutral light, no start. Lights still work. Blown neutral bulb perhaps but why no start. Yes I've killed her and the shock nearly gave me a heart attack.

Drinking Time! And time 4 a pro me thinks.

Actually typing all this out went someway to understanding what's going on I just have no solution. I s'pose I can print it out so my mech can have a laugh and save some time.

Oh and the next poor sap who goes down this path will know what NOT to do.
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:33 AM   #223
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In that jumble of text (well written but I'm too lazy to read thoroughly, sorry ) Did you ever just try to disconnect the ignition harnesses up at the handlebars and run it? To my knowledge, with both of those unplugged nothing electrical will work besides the CDI and ignition system. I do not know if it will negate the neutral though.

To me it almost sounds like the kickstand/neutral ground may be bad somewhere. Earthing the wires permanently should cure, assuming the wires are good all the way through. I'd almost suggest going to a hardware stor and picking up a few lengths of 18 gauge with proper connectors and run your own lines of new wire to get rid of all possible break in the wires. I do this for car audio when I run into troubles and it tends to help.

A mechanic friend is having a crazy issue like this as well with a f4i 600RR. Bike will ONLY run if you are holding the starter switch down. Engine runs fine, sensors check out, fuses check out, they even swapped a new ECU in and no go. Electric gremlins SUCK.

Also, I got the wheels in, and mounted the rear 'pucks' for the axle sliders and it looks good. I'm at work but I have to drill some holes for the front yet. Can't wait!
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:56 PM   #224
newt_sr
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Say, that plug you have rigged up for your coil... it has two spades. Is the spade you're not using dependant upon a ground source?


As a side note, is that your spark plug going to ground in your video? I can hear this tic tic tic tic

newt_sr screwed with this post 04-24-2010 at 09:04 PM
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:51 PM   #225
vudu
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Quote:
Did you ever just try to disconnect the ignition harnesses up at the handlebars and run it?
I may be missing something but I can't see how it would start, run. I've had them apart and cleaned this up best as I can.

Quote:
To me it almost sounds like the kickstand/neutral ground may be bad somewhere. Earthing the wires permanently should cure, assuming the wires are good all the way through.
That's how I managed to electrocute myself.

Quote:
Is the spade you're not using dependant upon a ground source?
I thought this was the ground for the coil replaced by the coil to frame earth.

Quote:
I can hear this tic tic tic tic
The sound in the video is a little off. The high pitched squeak in the video with the miss, I can hear with the old cdi, doesn't come out.

How 'bout some pic's Warrior?

Cheers for the ideas but I can't bear looking at it today. Might start fresh tomorrow.
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