ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-23-2010, 07:28 AM   #1
euromotorcycles OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Oddometer: 168
R100GS new driveshafts out of phase 5 deg

I am replacing a R100GS driveshaft that was completely destroyed and could not be rebuilt . The new BMW DS is out of phase by 5 deg . BMW claims they are built that way .The bad one I just removed is also off 5 deg.

Anyone here with more info on this .
euromotorcycles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 07:33 AM   #2
Airhead Wrangler
Adios Mexico
 
Airhead Wrangler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Back in Seattle, FINALLY
Oddometer: 6,430
Is that so they are IN phase when under load?
__________________
R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
Airhead Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 07:50 AM   #3
euromotorcycles OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Oddometer: 168
That could be it since the oil heads DS when assembled are also slightly out of phase . I had a look at a recently rebuilt R100GS DS with the new poly damper and the phase is dead on. Would that be wrong?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler
Is that so they are IN phase when under load?
euromotorcycles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 06:36 PM   #4
squish
Out of the office.
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Where the Ghetto meets the sea.
Oddometer: 6,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by euromotorcycles
I am replacing a R100GS driveshaft that was completely destroyed and could not be rebuilt . The new BMW DS is out of phase by 5 deg . BMW claims they are built that way .The bad one I just removed is also off 5 deg.

Anyone here with more info on this .
Who at BMW claims they are built that way?
Your local dealer, or someone on the other end of the phone at BMWNA?
__________________
On vacation for a spell
squish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 06:46 PM   #5
folmonty
Gnarly Adventurer
 
folmonty's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Danville, CA
Oddometer: 282
Drive shafts

Euro - Just prior to sending my R100 drive shaft to HPMGuy this morning looked it over and you're correct. Seems odd but now hope it comes back the same way......
__________________
Monty
Nor CA
TS, XLH, GT500
R5, RD (x's3),W, ZRX
R100GS, GSA, KLR
folmonty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 07:31 PM   #6
chiefrider
Chrome won't get you home
 
chiefrider's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: The lovely Willamette Valley
Oddometer: 2,309
BULLSHIT (perhaps)

We have a local fabricator (Portland) who is gearing up to do rebuilds on these driveshafts with fresh ureathane dampner, cast IN PHASE.

He installed a production prototype in his own GSPD and, for one thing, his mirrors are clear at all highway speeds.

He is also doing some minor improvements to the bearings in the u-joints. I think he may have the best solution so far.

The last time I held it in my hand, I discovered that my driveshaft is a bit out of phase, too. And I wondered if it goes "in phase" under load. Looking from the rear of the bike, the shaft runs counter clockwise. My driveshaft, if the rubber flexes at all, would be even MORE out of phase under load.

Check this on your bike, keeping in mind the input torque and how it will load the rubber. I bet you will discover that this is your case as well!

I plan to have him rebuild my next driveshaft.

Tom in Salem
__________________
I have found that all ugly things are made by those who strive to make something beautiful, and that all beautiful things are made by those who strive to make something useful. --Oscar Wilde
chiefrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 10:23 PM   #7
bereahorn
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Location: North Coast (Lake Erie)
Oddometer: 1,056
[QUOTE=chiefrider]We have a local fabricator (Portland) who is gearing up to do rebuilds on these driveshafts with fresh ureathane dampner, cast IN PHASE.

PM sent
bereahorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 11:28 PM   #8
Weaverman
Damaged goods
 
Weaverman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Mid-Michigan USA
Oddometer: 59
HPMGuy rocks

I just had HPMGuy rebuild my 32,000 mile R100GS driveshaft. It left here almost 4.5 mis-aligned and returned aligned. In my case, adding torque from the engine would have increased the phase angle separation. I wondered if I would notice a difference in vibration level due to the increased durometer of the urethane damper. I did notice a difference; the vibration level is reduced across the range, as indicated by reduced rearview mirror excitement.

I would also like to know who at BMW made the statement about the misalignment being intentional from the factory...interesting.

Guy's work is very nice and his service is even better. Hard to imagine a better solution.
Weaverman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 12:02 AM   #9
motu
Loose Pre Unit
 
motu's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 4,446
I don't know about BMW's (I only own one),but having driveshafts out of phase is sometimes intentional.Early Nissan Skylines (and VL Commodores) had their driveshaft yokes out of phase by 15 deg.Of course mechanics who had them apart put them back in correct alignment...only to get a bad vibration.Sometimes these manufacturers know more than us...impossible as that sounds.
motu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 01:51 AM   #10
Phreaky Phil
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Oddometer: 1,733
Interesting, I have an HPMGuy rebuilt driveshaft in my GS. One of my universals was starting to fail and the universals were out of phase. The rebuilt shaft is a great piece of work but I have never thought it is as smooth as the original. But changing tyres etc can have an effect on things so one would have to compare them back to back with no other changes.
Phreaky Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 03:05 PM   #11
euromotorcycles OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Oddometer: 168
Yes I did get this information from the dealer parts guy .The dealer at my request went on to check this out with BMWNA.The warehouse had 3 of them in stock . I was told they were all also slightly out of phase and probably built that way. No I do not have the BMW blueprints for those DS .

I am intregeed with this and I thought that perhaps someone on this forum had the answer.

There is a small car and truck parts remanufacturing plant that do driveshafts in my area they offer dynamic DS ballancing .I plan to have them check-out the ballance of that R100GS DS before I install it.I will follow-up on this later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squish
Who at BMW claims they are built that way?
Your local dealer, or someone on the other end of the phone at BMWNA?
euromotorcycles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 03:25 PM   #12
jackd
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: North Cowichan
Oddometer: 3,031
I was always under the impression that the oilhead drive shafts were manufactured slightly out-of-phase, whereas the airhead drive shafts were built with no out-of-phase condition. I actually read that here on this forum a few years ago and in other areas as well. Is it possible that the Dealer got his bikes mixed up?
jackd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2010, 03:14 PM   #13
H96669
A proud pragmatist.
 
H96669's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Hiding off Hwy 6, B.C.
Oddometer: 4,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefrider
The last time I held it in my hand, I discovered that my driveshaft is a bit out of phase, too. And I wondered if it goes "in phase" under load. Looking from the rear of the bike, the shaft runs counter clockwise. My driveshaft, if the rubber flexes at all, would be even MORE out of phase under load.

Check this on your bike, keeping in mind the input torque and how it will load the rubber. I bet you will discover that this is your case as well!

Tom in Salem
Interesting, I have a brand new BMW driveshaft on my bench, that is a two piece one for my K1200RS. The closest I can phase it is still a few degrees off, and would be even worse under load also.

But FYI, the BMW shop manual for my bike does not even mention phasing the driveshaft upon reinstalling the rear drive, and neither does the Clymer's. I believe the original driveshaft failed because the previous "Mechanic" followed the shop manual and did not phase it. Also caused the tranny output and final drive input seals to fail.

Just last year there was an interesting article in BMW ON by Paul Greaves on "Driveshaft Phasing".

I had my first BMW driveshaft failure in 1992, now my third one in 2009......in all those years you'd think that BMW could have improved on that well known "defective part" but.....I guess the accountants said no, let's keep selling them expensive replacement parts....!
__________________
Have tools, will travel!
H96669 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2010, 09:47 PM   #14
x3300
geoff
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: San Jose, CA
Oddometer: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefrider
He is also doing some minor improvements to the bearings in the u-joints.
What are these improvements?

-x3300
x3300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2010, 09:04 PM   #15
tailgunner27
GUNNER
 
tailgunner27's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Oddometer: 6
Leaky output seal

Recently I noticed a small leak from the output shaft. Wonder if the tranny fluid could aid in a U joint bearing failure.
tailgunner27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014