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Old 06-30-2014, 01:09 PM   #1
Vanzal15 OP
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Location: Mountain View California
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cam chain timing verification help please!

I did the cam chain rail swap without splitting the cases and now i am not too confident in my cam chain timing. When i took the cam chain sprocket off i zip-tied the chain to the sprocket so im confident that nothing moved and everything is good on that end. There was a lot of finagling around associated with replacing the cam chain rails and i am a little bit concerned that the right side chain might have moved on the sprocket inside the motor. When i was putting the bike back together i verified that the arrow on both cam chain sprockets pointed horizontally into the bike when the engine was at TDC (top dead center). I felt good about this so i put the bike back together and started her up after doing a valve adjustment. the bike smells like gas when idling and makes that terrible pre-detonation sound under luggin the engine hard acceleration (5th gear 35mpg rolling hard on the throttle). I was told that this sound could be attributed to the cam chain slapping the rails but since i upgraded the tensioner on the left side maybe i am truly getting pre-ignition?

How does my logic sound? If the arrows on the cam chain sprockets by the valves are pointed horizontally inward when the engine is at TDC then i have verified my cam chain timing and my cam chains did not move on the sprockets inside the engine correct?

If the cam chain did slip one tooth on the sprocket inside the engine would it even be possible to start the engine? Would it not run at all or would it run just smell a little bit rich like i am experiencing?


Thanks guys!


-Lyle

p.s. i got video of my replacing the cam chain rails so im gonna make a tutorial!
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:36 PM   #2
Zoef zoef
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Sir,

Possibly one of the throttle cables may be unseated from the throttle body?
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:43 PM   #3
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Sir,

Possibly one of the throttle cables may be unseated from the throttle body?
haha ive fallen for that one a few time already! nope!
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Old 06-30-2014, 03:57 PM   #4
billbeemer
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Question what do i know?

what do i know, but methinks the cam gear arrow points horizontally out away from the engine at TDC. am i crazy?
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Old 06-30-2014, 11:05 PM   #5
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what do i know, but methinks the cam gear arrow points horizontally out away from the engine at TDC. am i crazy?
I guess one of us is.... Hopefully we can get at least a 3rd opinion.....
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Old 07-01-2014, 04:01 AM   #6
billbeemer
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valve adjust

every time i adjust my valves, i use the arrow pointing horizontal out to align TDC. seriously, do a search on valve adjustment.........i am sure of this.
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Old 07-01-2014, 04:05 AM   #7
100RT
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Thats how my 03 1150RT indicates when I adjust my valves. Arrow pointing out.
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Old 07-01-2014, 03:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billbeemer View Post
what do i know, but methinks the cam gear arrow points horizontally out away from the engine at TDC. am i crazy?
Always!
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Old 07-01-2014, 04:34 PM   #9
billbeemer
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cam gears

if indeed the arrows on your cam gears are 180 out, i don't know whether it would cause problems. i'd have to look at cam lobes, i hope it doesn't make them open the valves incorrectly.............
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Old 07-01-2014, 04:54 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by billbeemer View Post
if indeed the arrows on your cam gears are 180 out, i don't know whether it would cause problems. i'd have to look at cam lobes, i hope it doesn't make them open the valves incorrectly.............
It is completely possible to be 180° out, though unlikely. If they are, you have serious issues.
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:36 PM   #11
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

dont know if you guys can see that picture hosted on facebook but it looks like we are both right. there are two sets of arrows on each sprocket and they both point outward so the one on the outside side of the sprocket points away from the bike. and the on one on the inside side of the sprocket points inside the bike....

So my question still stands. If i understand things correctly the sprocket that the cam chains go around deep inside the engine are connected to the same shaft so if one of the chains skipped a tooth on the sprocket down in the engine that would cause the arrows to not line up horizontally (into and out of the engine for each sprocket located on the heads independently). the sprocket inside the engine are roughly of the same size as the sprockets on the heads so any tooth movement would be substantial enough for me to notice the non-horizontally-lined-up situation going on on the heads independently.

correct?


-Lyle
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:58 PM   #12
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Find TDC on the offending cylinder and then ascertain the cam position. Careful that you don't bend any valves.
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:33 AM   #13
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Find TDC on the offending cylinder and then ascertain the cam position. Careful that you don't bend any valves.
Can you explain how i might go about doing this?

Thanks!
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Vanzal15 View Post
Can you explain how i might go about doing this?

Thanks!
Take out the spark plug and rotate the motor until a cylinder reaches top dead center. You can use something like a chop stick to feel the piston through the spark plug hole. If the piston is TDC the arrow on the cam should be at 90° (facing out). Then pull the flywheel plug cover and check what it is indicating. If you cant see a line, rotate the motor until you have TDC again and check.

The odds of the bike being off 180°, and not some arbitrary number, is very small.
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